Fe Engine

[stubbie]

long time observer on the forum but don't usually post. Fe engines are pretty scarce here on the island but last year I managed to find a block and the guy had another complete engine sitting in his shed so I grabbed that one as well. Anyway I just got to tearing it down. Don't know a lot about these engines so not sure what I have. It looks like it might have been a truck engine as it has an oil filter that sits horizontal. The block is a C7MEA, so a 67, possible 428 block? A 13/64 drill bit fits between the cylinders but not a 15/64. It's a 4.050 bore, 6.49 stroke so 390. Rods are C7AE-B 427/428, 2U crank, heads are C2SE 6090B possible 62-63 406CID? My measuring stick is broken but the valves appear to be around 2.03 intake and 1.60 exhaust. If I wanted to use this in a car would the crank snout be different? Thanks for any advice

[thatdarncat]

See if this link below will work for you, it was put together by one of our members and tells how to identify a real 428 block, or one of the occasional 361/391 FT blocks that were cast with 428 cylinder cores. First step is to look on the side of your block to see where it was cast, C7ME-A blocks were cast at both the Dearborn Iron Foundry (DIF) and the Cleveland Foundry (CF). The foundry logo will be on the side. If it is a Dearborn Iron Foundry (DIF) block you can tell by the shape of the deck coolant passages if it is a true 428 or FT with 428 cylinder cores. The diagram of the shapes is in the document I linked, but if you can’t get that to work I can post pictures here. If your block is a FE from a passenger car or pickup truck then it can’t be a 428 with 4.05” bores. Your block would have to be a FT block, from a medium or heavy duty truck, with the bigger FT distributor pilot hole, for it to possibly have the 428 cylinder cores with the 4.05” bore. C7ME-A blocks were used in both the ‘67 & ‘68 model years, you will have to look at the actual casting date code under the oil filter adapter pad to see when it was cast. For that era FE there may also be an engine assembly date stamped on one of the “ears” on the corner of the block, usually the drivers side front. Those will help identify the actual model year. If the C7ME-A block is from a ‘68 passenger car it might also have a partial VIN stamped on the back. I know it appears to be from a pickup truck going by the oil filter adapter, but always good to check, after 50 years lots of engines were swapped. A C7ME-A block can be any FE/FT engine Ford was assembling in the ‘67 & ‘68 model years, except a 427. A 428 is one possibility, but not the only possibility. The block casting numbers used after the ‘64 model year are basically meaningless on most FE’s for identifying the original size of the engine assembly, Ford just wasn’t using that casting number for that purpose. The crank snout on light duty (F100-F350) pickup FE’s are the same size as the passenger car FE’s, it’s only the FT cranks that can have the larger crank snouts.

Link to 428 block identification document:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jqrf7hv2ekxvcbk/428%20Block%20ID.docx?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR2DQdr6xbyOoylZGrvnzzmH0_8DTIvuZM7l4N7z1hEwQdo1_qPHx4M9HN4

[stubbie]

Thanks I'll check it out. What about heads anything special?

[427John]

The C2SE-B heads are indeed the 406 heads,they may have also been used on late 390HP's.

[FE4SPDMustang]

C2SE-Bs are not 406 heads. C2SE-C are. They're a nice head if you aren't running them in a tower car.

[427John]

I've got both C2SE-B's and C2SE-C's,they look almost identical and I was under the impression the B's were used on very early 406's as well as late 390HP's,regardless they are both good heads and will make more compression than the standard heads.The C3AE-C heads were used on late 406's and introduced the larger exhaust valve along with the spring seat cups.

[turbohunter]

Off of Mustang Tek

[stubbie]

Thanks

[FE4SPDMustang]

I had C2SE-C. The C was hand-stamped. The foundry ground the area flat and stamped them with "C" They had spring seats in them. The chamber with flat tops in a 428 make 11.5:1 compression. I had them in a Mustang and they were a pain in the butt to get the header bolts in. They also have the improved runners that flow better like the 427 LR heads.
As for Mustang Tek, it's often wrong.

[turbohunter]

As for Mustang Tek, it's often wrong.

Please tell us where so we all know.

[FE4SPDMustang]

Several applications are speculative.

[Dumpling]

I had C2SE-C. The C was hand-stamped. The foundry ground the area flat and stamped them with "C" They had spring seats in them. The chamber with flat tops in a 428 make 11.5:1 compression. I had them in a Mustang and they were a pain in the butt to get the header bolts in. They also have the improved runners that flow better like the 427 LR heads.
As for Mustang Tek, it's often wrong.

Why would the factory grind off one number and then handstamp another/,different FACTORY number?

Are you sure some owner somewhere down the ownership chain didn't just make the numbers match his spiel?

[thatdarncat]

I had C2SE-C. The C was hand-stamped. The foundry ground the area flat and stamped them with "C" They had spring seats in them. The chamber with flat tops in a 428 make 11.5:1 compression. I had them in a Mustang and they were a pain in the butt to get the header bolts in. They also have the improved runners that flow better like the 427 LR heads.
As for Mustang Tek, it's often wrong.

Why would the factory grind off one number and then handstamp another/,different FACTORY number?

Are you sure some owner somewhere down the ownership chain didn't just make the numbers match his spiel?

There are actually a few different, but well known examples, of Ford doing that on various parts. I’m not an expert in 406 heads and this particular example, but it’s very common on forged crankshafts for example, where Ford machined a common forging into a couple different finished cranks. Likewise another common one is the C3AE-9425-K 427 low riser intake manifold, where the last letter, the “K”, on the casting number on many was hand stamped on. I have seen pictures of other cylinder heads where the last letter was hand stamped. I’m not saying your scenario isn’t possible, but it is something Ford definitely did back in the day. No one was looking ahead 50+ years to when this stuff might became collectible, and preventing forgeries. But this is where having hands on experience with certain parts & engines helps.

[427John]

C2SE-Bs are not 406 heads. C2SE-C are. They're a nice head if you aren't running them in a tower car.

I had C2SE-C. The C was hand-stamped. The foundry ground the area flat and stamped them with "C" They had spring seats in them. The chamber with flat tops in a 428 make 11.5:1 compression. I had them in a Mustang and they were a pain in the butt to get the header bolts in. They also have the improved runners that flow better like the 427 LR heads.
As for Mustang Tek, it's often wrong.

But of course you never are.

[FE4SPDMustang]

No, FORD did this. It's commonly known about the C2SE-C heads and well as the '68 N heads. They also came with and without 427 style spring seats.
These were in the Ford box and wrap, stapled shut. I bought them with NOS 2.09 and 1.66 valves in the boxes, 427 springs and seats. The heads were cut for the spring seats. It's not a fairy tale like the 68' 427 W code Mustang.  As a matter of fact I sold them to Ben from the 332-428 FE Forum.
They're a great head except the tiny 62CC chamber and they are horrible to deal with in a tower car with headers.