NOTE TO blykins AND OTHERS WHO CARE TO LOOK IN:

[cammerfe]

Brent, I have massive respect for your engine-building ability and your knowledge in that direction. And I always look eagerly toward what you have to say when it comes to such an area.

I, on the other hand, have built no more than a couple-of-dozen engines in my whole life, for myself, and participated in a few dozen more while helping other people. (That couple-of-dozen includes several flatheads, 'back-when'. One of them powered the family car, and one my '34 Five Window.) You have vastly more engine experience than I do.

On the other hand, I spent time during college working at various tasks at T&C Livonia. At one point I built Torque converters. We were supposed to make 800 per shift and worked seven days a week for several months at a time. Altogether, I probably helped make several hundred thousand. As a curious college kid, I learned all the jobs in the department. And since I was also racing at the time, I got to know many of the engineering folk as well. I learned about torque converters.

Since we last visited the subject, I called several of the manufacturers of performance torque converters. Talking with their tech folk, I asked if the words'stall-converter' were much in use in their facility. Depending on who was on the other end of the line, I got more-or-less polite derision. The words don't seem to appear anywhere in any manufacturer's printed material nor are they in regular use by the personnel.

Talking about a 'stall-converter' is just as incorrect as insisting on always speaking of a 'metallic engine' in the given contexts. The use of 'stall' is just as useless as 'metallic' or insisting on talking about a 'cloth shirt'.

I let your put-down dismissiveness go for the last couple of weeks in order to see if I'd just forget it. I haven't---nor the comments from others. A display of ignorance is never seemly, nor is attempting to poke fun at someone who says, "Hey, wait a minute, guys. That isn't right..."

Ken Sheffer

[Drew Pojedinec]

Ken,
Much respect to you and your accomplishments.  Same with Mr Lykins.
I don't fully understand anything beyond the basics of convertors and pretty much just call up PTC or Broader for such things.

That said, I'm sure if anyone used the term "stall convertor" it would be a shortened version of "higher stall than stock" and not meant to be a stand alone term with it's own definitive meaning.
I'm sure a professional convertor builder would see the term as an abomination, and I can understand their perspective in that.
To those of us on the outside of such specialized knowledge it would be viewed like that type of person that needs to correct someone for using the term "motor" instead of "engine."  Such corrections are not meant to educate, only to lend a note of condescension to a conversation.  I don't see the benefit of it in the big scheme.
I excel at very few things, but those that I do excel at, I am VERY good with them.  Rule #1 with the gift of such knowledge, always speak to someone as if they know nothing about that subject, until proven otherwise.

Of course, I don't know the "put-down dismissiveness" you speak of (I don't read everything here), so I may be totally off base, and I apologize if I am.  I just felt the need to toss out my 2 cents.

Either way, sorry your feathers got ruffled over whatever this is.

[Joe-JDC]

A converter's flash point is known as its "stall rpm".  A stall converter is someone who modifies a barn receptacle into a living space for humans.  Joe-JDC

[fekbmax]

OMG, those are fricking leavers,  not fingers... uggh... LoL.
I'm just poking fun. I don't stress much about this kinda stuff. Generally  i feel like if you are into this world of high performance  then you pretty  much know all the slang's and what people mean.
Motor - engine, stall - loose converter,  finger - leaver pressure plate,  I'm good with all of it. Of course it never hurts to dumb thing's down for those of us that are not the sharpest crayon in the box. (Me).
On a side note, i got to roam around in the GER converter and transmission facilities  back in the 90's. It was very interesting watching converters go together and get tested. Watching transmission's be built and dyno tested. .

[blykins]

Ken, I don't know what to say. 

In the general scheme of things, people learn by example.  That goes for forums or in open public chatting.  I think people would respond to a solid example rather than being called out, like you did the other gentleman in the other post.  Nobody likes to be called out, especially when you're insinuating that they're not "in the know".

Being on this end of the country, I hear everything: "Coma-tick head gaskets", "Eldabrock heads", "Bro-dex heads".  I don't correct them.  It's not that big of a deal and I really don't care.   There is also a bit of slang going on.   When I call up Bill Vinton at Trend to order pushrods, I'll tell him I need a set of push-sticks.  He doesn't correct me.  It's in jest.  In this end of the country, the aforementioned item that's the subject of this thread are often called "high stall converters".  In our dominantly word-lazy country, this is often shortened to "stall converter".   No big deal. 

I don't feel like it's a situation where you need to call someone out and correct them for terminology.  It was kinda condescending and that's what I had the biggest problem with....as some of the other guys.   

Honestly, I wish you would have just told me to go climb a tree, instead of taking a two week hiatus to call every torque converter manufacturer and ask them what they think about the terminology.....

All-in-all, if I hurt your feelings, I apologize and if we ever meet in person, I owe you a cup of java.

[FElony]

I don't know why all you jagoffs aren't discussing Stahl converters. It's a huge brand; half the hot rods on Craigslist have one. But, just try to find their phone number or ordering info... no way, Jose!

[Stangman]

I dont see what the difference is call it what you like we know what everyone is talking about. I think we are getting alittle picky on terminology.

[Drew Pojedinec]

I don't know why all you jagoffs aren't discussing Stahl converters. It's a huge brand; half the hot rods on Craigslist have one. But, just try to find their phone number or ordering info... no way, Jose!

I once had  a Dodge Cummings with a Stahl Convertor.

[BattlestarGalactic]

Just go to New England area where everything ends with an "R" sound.  That will really make you cringe...............

Life is too short to worry about it.

[cjshaker]

Motor - engine,.....

Uh Oh, here comes the 'motor/engine' and the 'automobile/car/horseless carriage' debate 

[chilly460]

Seriously?  It was annoying enough when you wouldn't let it go the first time around.  Everyone knows what the term "stall convertor" is referring to, even if it's not technically correct.  Pointing it out just makes you look small, everyone knows that one supercilious douche that just can't let a little error go uncorrected because they get a kick out of pointing out someone else's error.  You're being that guy right now. 

 

[FElony]

Seriously?  It was annoying enough when you wouldn't let it go the first time around.  Everyone knows what the term "stall convertor" is referring to, even if it's not technically correct.  Pointing it out just makes you look small, everyone knows that one supercilious douche that just can't let a little error go uncorrected because they get a kick out of pointing out someone else's error.  You're being that guy right now.

Supercilious douche. I love it. FElony's "Harpoon of the Month Award". And quite the deserving target, as exemplified by past posts from "Twisted Panties" Sheffer.

I don't know why all you jagoffs aren't discussing Stahl converters. It's a huge brand; half the hot rods on Craigslist have one. But, just try to find their phone number or ordering info... no way, Jose!

I once had  a Dodge Cummings with a Stahl Convertor.

Was it better than a Coan or and Edge?

....All-in-all, if I hurt your feelings, I apologize and if we ever meet in person, I owe you a cup of java.

Brent, you friggin' beta cuck. Stand your ground and don't ever apologize to Twisted Panties Sheffer.

Uh Oh, here comes the 'motor/engine' and the 'automobile/car/horseless carriage' debate 

Which reminds me. Where do I find parts to rebuild my Fyord windshield wiper engines? Yes, this is a serious question. Kind of. I have 36 of them to do.

[jayb]

That's enough, gentlemen...

[FElony]

That's enough, gentlemen...

What about my windshield motor parts?

BTW, it's ALWAYS Sheffer that creates the friction. What about giving him some time off for introspection? Hmmm?

[Tobbemek]

Even her in Sweden most people use stall converter fore a synonym to a converter modified to a  higher  "stall speed"
When i was a 20 year young technicianservice trainee student back in 1978 at B&M Transmission they "slapped" my fingers many times for
using wrong vocabulary or sometimes even  "SWENGLISH " but every one understood the term stall converter.
I think as long as you know what people ar talking about and its not confusing the terminology how things function and the affect of it as  fore example the difference between idle screw , fast idle screw and idle mixture screw ( all of them idle screws right ? ) you don't correct people , its just a thing of politeness

[Tobbemek]

Haa i forgot to put in "curb idle screw" in the sentence  "idle screw"

[fryedaddy]

boy,i hope some of my east tennessee slang dont confuse anybody

[Lowrider]

Mentioning a stall convertor is a rare occurrence with me since everything I've ever built had 3 pedals. To me it's like the people that rag on about the term 3/4 cam we used way back when. That was just the term everyone used. No different than seeing a cam listed as a "RV cam" now. What, your going to take your hot rod camping? Just the terms used now.

I like the comment on "twisted panties". Maybe we should start a Twisted Panty section.

[Yellow Truck]

boy,i hope some of my east tennessee slang dont confuse anybody

I believe that is "don't confuse nobody".

[blykins]

boy,i hope some of my east tennessee slang dont confuse anybody

I believe that is "don't confuse nobody".

From eastern KY.  Can confirm.

[fastback 427]

You guys all talk weird to me. Up in North Dakota we don't have an accent. Enough of this, i gotta trow da horse some hay over da fence hey.

[Yellow Truck]

You guys all talk weird to me. Up in North Dakota we don't have an accent. Enough of this, i gotta trow da horse some hay over da fence hey.

Not quite far "north" enough. I believe taht should "...over da fence, eh?"

[Tobbemek]

If you get "quite far up north" in Sweden like Ingemar Stenmark territory for those ho know ho hi is, people up there will answer most any question
with a strange half whistling in sucking sound    "Shhiiuu"    Nice wether to day---   " Shhiiuu"  Do you know if this road does go too-----  "Shhiiuu"
and so on.

[FElony]

boy,i hope some of my east tennessee slang dont confuse anybody

I believe that is "don't confuse nobody".

From eastern KY.  Can confirm.

You are both obvious imposters. All of us Westerners know, for a fact, that every sentence from a real Suth'ner (<-- note correct spelling) contains at least one "y'all" in it. Maybe "yaawwl" if y'all from Joh Jah.

Anyway, here is my stall converter story, um , y'all. Several decades ago my best friend at the time, who was a Mopar guy (I know, I know) went and rented a room from a Chevy guy (this tale is deteriorating rapidly, ain't it?). His ride was a bright yellow '70 Camero (<-- note Craigslist spelling) powered by a 350 with a mild cam and the usual bolt-ons. It actually ran pretty well (hey, accidents will happen). He switched from stock gears to 4.10's, but kept the stock converter.

As the rpm with each shift was above stall, the car became a Scratch Meister. In normal traffic the 1-2 always barked the tires with a little lunge. 2-3 would also with just a little more go pedal. It would do this even with 3 guys inside. Great fun!. In contrast, my 442, which was an easy 2-to-3 seconds faster, had a 3800-flash 10-inch that produced mushy, unremarkable shifts even with a -2 Transgo in traffic. You had to lean on the throttle to get some theatrics.

So, the point heah (<--note correct Suth'n spelling) is that converter choice "can" be influenced not just by cam and stuff, but by what you want the car to behave like. Wanna Scratch Meister? Stock or low stall, y'all.

[FElony]

Another little story for y'all (lawdy, iz ah gawn be talking lahk dis awl day?). I attended private school in the L.A. area from Kindergarten through 12th. The curriculum throughout heavily stressed proper English speech and composition as essential to success in the post-graduation world. The text books not only taught the right way, but also included numerous examples of no-no's. This confused many of us, as we had not observed any of this substandard lingo in our society. It wasn't until I was in High School that I realized that the majority of the criticism was, in fact, leveled at the way English was spoken in the South. The initial eye-opener was a guy who joined our school in 10th grade after moving with his family from Biloxi. Hoo-wee he might as well have been from Mars. Great guy, but needless to say he was "forced" by circumstance to alter his speech lest he be thrown to the lions.

It wasn't until my first year in college that I discovered that there was a worse living situation than an apartment. You would have to go several miles to the sketchy part of town to even find an apartment in my area. It was an actual insult to someone in my group to suggest that they may have been raised in an apartment, or even was acquainted with one of said dwellers.

So, one day the news mentions a tornado had ripped through a Texas trailer park and killed x number of people. Properly horrified, I had no clue why people would hang around a campground with a tornado bearing down on them. I mentioned this to someone at school, who informed me that it was not a campground, but that people actually lived in structures that were towed in and fixed to the ground semi-permanently, and that the victims of the tornado were hunkered down at home hoping they made it.

Well, I went from horrified to mortified. Living in a trailer? In the United States of America? Tell me it ain't so. Culture shock at its basic level. And now, ironically, I live in the desert in a teepee that I have to rebuild a couple of times every monsoon season. Life is grand, y'all.

[fryedaddy]

boy,i hope some of my east tennessee slang dont confuse anybody

I believe that is "don't confuse nobody".

From eastern KY.  Can confirm.

as clint eastwood would say-i wrecken so

[Drew Pojedinec]

So, one day the news mentions a tornado had ripped through a Texas trailer park and killed x number of people. Properly horrified, I had no clue why people would hang around a campground with a tornado bearing down on them. I mentioned this to someone at school, who informed me that it was not a campground, but that people actually lived in structures that were towed in and fixed to the ground semi-permanently, and that the victims of the tornado were hunkered down at home hoping they made it.

FElony,
What does a tornado in Texas, a hurricane in Florida, and a divorce in Georgia have in common?
















someone's fixin to lose a trailer.

[Heo]

If you get "quite far up north" in Sweden like Ingemar Stenmark territory for those ho know ho hi is, people up there will answer most any question
with a strange half whistling in sucking sound    "Shhiiuu"    Nice wether to day---   " Shhiiuu"  Do you know if this road does go too-----  "Shhiiuu"
and so on.

its a myth

[Tobbemek]

  Did you watch the documentary story  on TV about the famous -56is Stenmark,Borg, Wassberg, Frank Andersson and Linda Haglund.
The interveus with Stenmark  The competition went good today----  " Shhiuu    Was it a difficult ride down the pist--- Shhiuu

[Tommy-T]

First of all, I consider Ken Sheffer a friend. He has credentials in journalism, and therefore I can imagine his affinity with the English language and correct terminology is important to him. It's actually a good thing if you're not too thin skinned.

I myself am a transplant from a shack in the swamp at the outlet of the Cape Fear River in NC, to the asphalt jungle of the San Fernando Valley in SoCal at an early age. "English" as spoken to me by my relatives and English as spoken to me by my teachers and peers was very confusing to me as a child. But it all worked out fine. I still say reckon, y'all, and yonder...but most folks get the jest of what I'm try'n to say. But I also don't mind being corrected.

I know what a "stall converter" is but I don't use that term. It's a little hillbilly for me. I prefer loose.

Now back to the garage. Y'all take care now, y'hear?     

[Rory428]

I also know what most mean with a "stall converter", and like Tommy, I don`t use that either. I would much prefer to have a clutch bolted to a flywheel, than a "stall converter" bolted to a flexplate (even though Ford parts books calls what every transmission shop calls a "flexplate", a "flywheel, automatic". Weird, EH? Time for me to get off the Chesterfield, wash the green tree slime off my truck so its COLOUR is white again. Wonder if there will be any ZED 28 Camaros at the track tomorrow? Pardon my Canadianese.

[Tobbemek]

Tommy a loose converter is when someone forgot to tightening the bolts

[Autoholic]

Unbelievable to see a member call another member out over damn terminology, this is downright disgraceful and childish. I thought the folks here were better than that.

[chris401]

Moved

[FElony]

...I myself am a transplant from a shack in the swamp at the outlet of the Cape Fear River in NC, to the asphalt jungle of the San Fernando Valley in SoCal at an early age...

I was born and raised in the very west end of the SFV, close to the Ventura County line. It was a newly built area in the late 50's/early 60's that was very middle class. Lots of young families with loads of children in decent tract housing. I'm sure us kids would have thought an actual swamp in the area would have been really cool, what with quicksand and killer critters and Adrienne Barbeau and stuff.

While us "natives" took little jabs at the "immigrants" from parts of America with curious speech (did you know some people actually called jeans "dungarees" back then?), we were clueless about reverse discrimination. Sparing you the story about how she and I met, there was a girl in Oklahoma that I thought was great (I didn't much like Cali girls; pretty, but what crappy attitudes). We talked about her moving to CA and settling down with me. Running this scenario past her relatives at some family function, she was informed by the powers-that-be therein that no way no how uh-uh was she leaving the South to marry some guy that resided in the Land of Fruits and Nuts. Never mind that I had an established career and made 10 or 12 times what she did, and had been on the Honor Roll at a private educational institute. Nope, I was unworthy scum because I was a Californian. They threatened to ostracize her from all members of the family.

I was shocked, of course. I thought they would be DELIGHTED to see her live in the great Pacific Utopia, with a really forthright person. Understandably, she caved in and stayed there. And as for me, I never did get married at all, but instead slunk into the wretched, vile, non-human you see today, foul of breath and absent of a sole redeeming quality.

Oh well, zhit happens. Tell your buddy that latching relentlessly onto picaninny infractions eradicates respect while trumpeting dysfunction. I could spit out a hundred posts a day just about observed inept punctuation. It's an impotent endeavor on the Net. Heck, I'd rather swim in a swamp.

[FERoadster]

FElony ---

Moving/Retiring from SE Michigan (Detroit farm Suburbs) to SW Coastal Oregon, I can certainly say Cali or Arizona are not on my radar.
We talk a bit slower here but still with a true mid-west attitude. Of course with west coast ideas/ideals.
Lots of friends here in Oregon from Michigan/Wisconsin/Minnesota/ Ontario/Ohio

FERoadster >>> Movin/on

[FElony]

FElony ---

Moving/Retiring from SE Michigan (Detroit farm Suburbs) to SW Coastal Oregon, I can certainly say Cali or Arizona are not on my radar.
We talk a bit slower here but still with a true mid-west attitude. Of course with west coast ideas/ideals.
Lots of friends here in Oregon from Michigan/Wisconsin/Minnesota/ Ontario/Ohio

FERoadster >>> Movin/on

Oregon is a good middle ground, climate-wise, between Mich and AZ. Half the people that move here from the North move back out within a few years because they can't take the weather. Those that stay remain ensconced within A/C-infused quarters and moan about temps. They don't understand the mindset involved, particularly the need for increased hydration, which they have not considered much in a milder clime. I am currently demolishing a building 2-3 days a week in triple digit weather by my own badass self, and you better believe I pay attention to water intake and heart rate all day long. If I drop, there will be nobody there to find me until the smell.

Anyway, Cali and AZ are miles apart socio-politically. "They" have already succumbed to the passive invasion, while "we" are most likely going to be the bastion of final resistance in the western states. Lots of citizens here with "tactical" attitudes, if you know what I mean. Much like Tennessee, I reckon.

Enjoy your retirement but stay active. Too many couch potatoes kickin' before their time out there. Back on the demo site tomorrow morn. Heck of a way to spend my 61st, but it is what it is.