Line Lock on a Mustang...

[cjshaker]

I have seen a guy run hubcaps at an NHRA event, but they were retained by machine screws and it was a fairly slow car, about 13 sec. if I remember correctly. I wouldn't count on every tech inspector giving the Ok on that one though.

I just weighed my old 225-60/15 with Magnums against my ET Wheels and MT Sportsmans and got the same differences as Earl. 20lbs compared to 30lbs. I certainly noticed a difference in front end rise when I put on the ET's and Mickeys. I also took the car out after putting them on and did some hard stops in a big open lot and did not notice anything peculiar or sketchy when doing so vs. my old heavy BF Goodrich and Magnums.

[Rory428]

Another positive consideration for running skinny "Pizza Cutter" tires is that every track that I have been to in the past 20 years or so, requires the car to drive through the water box, rather than back in like we used to do years ago. A narrow front tire, with minimal tread, is much less likely to drag a lot of water from the burnout box, up to the starting line, directly in front of your slicks. Not ideal for traction. I liked it better when we would drive around the water box, and then back in, but it does take longer, and unless you have a crew member there to back you in straight, and avoid hitting somebody, or something, it can be tough if you are tightly belted in, and unable to see much.
As for the safety of skinny front tires, I have had the pleasure (?) of sliding around in my own oil at 130 MPH a couple of times, and frankly, I would be more concerned about the thin walled, low air pressure slicks out back, than a narrow front tire with 30 or 40 PSI when it comes to evasive manouvers. As for the front tires themselves, I have used Morosos, M/Ts, and currently have a pair of M&H fronts on my Fairmont. I have found that the M/T fronts tend to wear out much quicker, and hold air poorly, compared to the old style Moroso "Drag Specials". The Morosos were on the Fairmont for about 15 years, and never lost air, even after sitting all winter, while the Mustangs M/Ts needed air added every month or so.  And the Morosos still have decent tread depth, where I have worn out 2 pairs of M/Ts in a shorter time period. I have only had the M&Hs on the car for 4 months, but they seem to hold air very well too. 

[FElony]

I apologize in advance for pitching you an easy one,

Apology not accepted. I am reporting you to the moderator for heaving something of indeterminate physical property in my direction, whilst beguiling me into warm and fuzzy by claiming it's "easy".

...but I can go both ways on this    On my Mach 1 I like to keep the stock look, and run Magnum 500s all the way around, with 15X7 fronts and 235/60-15 front tires.  On my Shelby clone I run fairly skinny tires and wheels, 15X4 Centerlines with Mickey Thompson skinnys.  I have noticed almost no difference in how the cars handle on the track, in terms of steering and recovery.  The only time I've come close to hitting the wall was in my Mach 1, when I got out of the groove with my supercharged engine and wasn't able to get traction.  I had been trying to stay in it to save the run (it was a licensing pass), which I learned that day was a mistake.  Once you are out of the groove, get off the throttle immediately.  My view is that most of those videos showing cars out of control come from people trying to stay on the throttle in that situation.

Well, that's the point, isn't it? Physics demands that an increased contact patch will hold better in obtuse/askew directional input, and most racers encountering such a situation need all the help they can get. More to the point, learning not to overcorrect is paramount, but human nature in a stress spike will usually do that.

If you want to be stylin' going down the track,

The doctor who delivered me into this world told me I had no style. Or class. I believed him then, and I believe him now.

run whatever front tires and wheels you want.  If you are trying to extract best ET and max MPH, the weight savings and improved weight transfer with the skinnys up front will pay significant dividends.

A quantified analysis of the ambiguous term "significant dividends" is what I was looking for when I strategically derailed this thread. 'member, y'all?

I was going to remark how much more impressive it is to pull a wheelie with big tires up front as opposed to skinnies, with your Mach in mind. However, I would have to report myself to the moderator for kissing the moderator's butt, a conundrum my therapist would have a field day with.

[FElony]

I have seen a guy run hubcaps at an NHRA event, but they were retained by machine screws and it was a fairly slow car, about 13 sec. if I remember correctly. I wouldn't count on every tech inspector giving the Ok on that one though.

Local guy with a 12-second '72 LTD runs full wheel covers that are screwed to the steelies. Tech checks one wheel's lugs, gives the others a pass, he puts the one back on. His are rather easily retained around the edge; not sure how you could pull that off with small caps.

I just weighed my old 225-60/15 with Magnums against my ET Wheels and MT Sportsmans and got the same differences as Earl. 20lbs compared to 30lbs. I certainly noticed a difference in front end rise when I put on the ET's and Mickeys. I also took the car out after putting them on and did some hard stops in a big open lot and did not notice anything peculiar or sketchy when doing so vs. my old heavy BF Goodrich and Magnums.

Does your car wheelie? I ask because unsprung weight still in contact with the asphalt should not have an effect on front end lift until it just clears said asphalt. If you can feel an increase in forward acceleration just from the reduction of 20 pounds of total weight, then you have one finely tuned butt-o-meter. And I mean that in a manly way. Of course.

[FElony]

Another positive consideration for running skinny "Pizza Cutter" tires is that every track that I have been to in the past 20 years or so, requires the car to drive through the water box, rather than back in like we used to do years ago. A narrow front tire, with minimal tread, is much less likely to drag a lot of water from the burnout box, up to the starting line, directly in front of your slicks. Not ideal for traction. I liked it better when we would drive around the water box, and then back in, but it does take longer, and unless you have a crew member there to back you in straight, and avoid hitting somebody, or something, it can be tough if you are tightly belted in, and unable to see much.

Good point. I don't recall what the local track's rule is about backing in. I have never done a burnout at a track, just have driven around and gone straight to the line on treaded regular street tires.

As for the safety of skinny front tires, I have had the pleasure (?) of sliding around in my own oil at 130 MPH a couple of times, and frankly, I would be more concerned about the thin walled, low air pressure slicks out back, than a narrow front tire with 30 or 40 PSI when it comes to evasive manouvers. As for the front tires themselves, I have used Morosos, M/Ts, and currently have a pair of M&H fronts on my Fairmont. I have found that the M/T fronts tend to wear out much quicker, and hold air poorly, compared to the old style Moroso "Drag Specials". The Morosos were on the Fairmont for about 15 years, and never lost air, even after sitting all winter, while the Mustangs M/Ts needed air added every month or so.  And the Morosos still have decent tread depth, where I have worn out 2 pairs of M/Ts in a shorter time period. I have only had the M&Hs on the car for 4 months, but they seem to hold air very well too.

The Montego is heavier than your Fairmont or the Mustangs in this thread, though, and I have this mental picture of it plowing through skinnies. It currently has 225/70's non-drag up front on skinny polished Centerlines that are a tad narrow for that size, judging by the amount of sidewall bulge. Conversely, there are 275/60 non-drag in back on 10-inch wheels, which are perhaps too wide for that size. All four have very little tread wear. I could move them to the aforementioned 6 and 8 steelies, which I think would make a better fit.

We'll see. I am paranoid about racing a 1of20 car where the other 19 appear to be MIA. On the other hand, driving on the street is probably, statistically, riskier. Argh.

[cjshaker]

Does your car wheelie? I ask because unsprung weight still in contact with the asphalt should not have an effect on front end lift until it just clears said asphalt. If you can feel an increase in forward acceleration just from the reduction of 20 pounds of total weight, then you have one finely tuned butt-o-meter. And I mean that in a manly way. Of course.

My butt-o-meter is HIGHLY refined, but I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here.

I guess I should have expanded on that comment a bit. I was having some serious traction issues initially, spinning right off the line. But I've made several changes since then, all leading to some good improvements. I recently put my old BF Goodrich tires back on to make sure they were still ok to use for the 900+ mile trek for Drag Week (they're 10 years old). After some test & tune runs and getting decent results, I put my ET Wheels back on and was told that my next pass netted about 3" of clearance between the pavement and tire. I couldn't tell but did notice that the front had risen higher than previously. Being in a hurry that day, I didn't even think about using my Go Pro to film the runs, so I can't verify what I was told, but I trust the person who told me. Instead of spinning right off the line, now I'm getting about 30' before breaking traction, so I've still got more work to do but think I'm heading in the right direction. It was actually stupid of me to run the BF/Magnum wheel combo at the track because it'll change with the 20lb difference changing wheels, but it was only for 2 runs.

[Bolted to Floor]

Doug, you may want to rethink 10 year old tires on drag week when it will still be pretty warm during the day and the car is hauling a lot of extra weight. Some manufactures say to replace them after 6-8 years. A tire coming apart could cause some damage to that shiny blue paint.

[cjshaker]

John, I appreciate the concern, and I've re-thought it plenty of times...lol  About all the extra weight will be in a trailer, but even that won't be a lot. The tires have always been kept in a cool environment and don't show any signs of cracking or checking. I've ran tires for lots of years before and other than with really cheap tires, I've only ran into issues when they've been exposed to elements year round. I'll only be using the rears and my ET Streets will serve as a backup if I need them. Plus I can't really afford to spend $300 on a set of tires that will only be used once 

[Bolted to Floor]

Ok, sounds like you got it under control, just thought I'd throw it out there. 

[FElony]

My butt-o-meter is HIGHLY refined, but I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here.

...I guess I should have expanded on that comment a bit...

Gotcha.

The tires have always been kept in a cool environment and don't show any signs of cracking or checking. I've ran tires for lots of years before and other than with really cheap tires, I've only ran into issues when they've been exposed to elements year round.

Same situation here. The Montego has old date codes on the tires, but it was garaged in South Dakota, and it's been garaged here since I got it. No evidence of any issues at all, so I'll just run them.

HOWEVER, some of the tire shops around here are now refusing to touch tires past a certain age because of liability legalities, so now I'm shopping for my own tire machine and balancer. Not just for this car, of course. The amount of doinking around I do with tires and wheels is ridiculous, so it'll pay off in the long run. Last year I pulled 84 tires off wheels. Some were so old their date codes were in Roman numerals. All were so petrified that an archaeologist would run away screaming. Plenty had so little treadwear that I cried thinking about all that money flushed down the commode.

Have I mentioned lately that I'm an idjit?

[Heo]

HAHA reminds me when im aired up the tires
on the Anglia when i was to unload it from the
trailer. The first tire i aired up started to make
a cracking sound so i stoped and went over to
the other side of the Anglia started to air that
tire when. RRRRRRIP the hole car jumped
when i looked around the rear corner of the car
it was like a cow udder stickin out from the tire
a couple of minutes there was a real loud bang
when the tube ruptured

[Falcon67]

My logic was the combination of front discs and skinny tires could cause a lockup condition.

I have seen SO many videos of cars that get out of shape and can't be corrected for lack of grip from skinnies. Has anyone ever done A-B ET testing against a wider front tire. It seems to me the safety factor would override whatever less rolling resistance/weight gets you. I get this is crucial in a class car, but anything else?

90% of the cars that "get out of shape" and can't get back are due to the driver not having the brains to quit the run.  Many of those should show a car out of the groove, then then trying to drive back in the groove and hammering it again.  ET/Heads up/Index/whatever - you lose already, quit now.  Test-N-Tune, you get no data - sorry.  Oh no, I gotta get back in it in spite of the fact that the chassis is now completely out of sorts and adding power back in only makes it worse.  Also, those big tires out back are more in control than the nose wheels.  The one that has bite, or more rolling resistance, is going to turn you one way or the other if one wheel is out of the established racing groove.  You're also assuming that the chassis on said car is set up right in the first place.  That can be a rare thing, especially with the 405 wannabes spraying the crap out of the car.  Some of those guy's version of chassis tuning is airing the tires.

The advantage of front drag "skinnies" are many - several diameters are available to fit your car to use for car (and driver) reaction time tuning.  Adding/removing air is also a tuning parameter thanks to increased/decreased roll out.  I'v run as much as 35 in my 27.5" fronts when I had 1.58 60' times, vs 19 lbs in the wifes car at the same 60' to keep her from going red.  Right now with the 302 I'm actually running "Volkswagen" fronts.  165/80R15, about 25.5 inches diameter.  Works well with my 1.78 60' times.

[57 lima bean]

Found this to be interesting.....   http://beta.hotrod.com/articles/line-lock-launch-a-mustang-drag-racing-tradition-since-1965/