Paint Conundrum

[ScotiaFE]

She wants the paint matched up I just shake my head.
There is no matching of the paint. Close is all you get.
Who says the picture of the second car is the exact real colour?
The camera and sun light and etc, etc all play a part in pictures of cars and Hot looking Magazine Models.
Both cars look Fantastic. The one with the pipes sticking out of the hood would look great in slop shop primer.

[rcodecj]

I like the lighter color better!  
Besides, the lighter color won't show the dirt as much!

[jayb]

So I was out in the shop yesterday with my pals Steve and Jerry, and we got to talking about the paint on the Shelby clone, and the shade of the color being off.  Jerry suggested opening up the can of the remaining paint, sticking a paint stick in there, and comparing.  So we did; here's a photo taken after the paint on the stick dried:



The color on the stick is what I wanted!  Given this information it seems clear that more coats of paint were needed on the car before I cleared it, to get the color right, because the thick paint that dried on the paint stick looks correct.  If I end up repainting the car this summer, I think beforehand I'll experiment with different colors of sealer on some test panels before spraying the color on them, and also experiment with the number of coats of paint.  Looks like one way or the other I should be able to get the color I want with more coats or a different base coat.  This is something of a relief, since the alternative for me was to start trying to mix blue and black into the base color from the paint store and try to hit the right shade.  Not something I was looking forward to...

[machoneman]

Those are all great ideas Jay. Adding more paint coats but not before testing on the panels....you may luck out and minimize the work you'll need to do in getting that color just right.

Sure beats stripping it off and starting again. That must be though some mighty near-translucent paint in thin coats!

[jayb]

It's PPG's cheap paint, called Omni.  I wanted to buy regular Ditzler paint, but according to the paint store the normal Ditzler paint wasn't offered in that color anymore, so I had to buy the Omni stuff.  I've heard some things about the Omni paint being lower in solids than the standard Ditzler paint, and it sure seems to be the case here.  Between all the jams, under the hood and trunk, etc. I have five quarts of this stuff on the car, including three full wet coats of base coat on the exterior surfaces.  I was not expecting this issue after laying on three full wet coats!  Kind of makes me want to switch to DuPont or something.  In any case, I'll be running test panels with white, gray, and black sealer before the base coat color, to see if that makes a difference.  The sealer I used on the car when I painted it last summer was white, so maybe a darker sealer will help...

[GJCAT427]

Jay, thats a wide varance in the color from the same batch! I would diffinetly go with a darker sealer. I would try gray and black on your test panels. Also remember that paint will tone down as time goes on after drying. Not sure how the blue/green will tone down but reds will allmost change a shade when exposed to sunlight. Good luck Garry

[cjetmech]

Jay you might want to post this question to the guys on the SPI userforum, or call their tech line. Even though this wasnt their product I'm sure theyll help you out. And the guys on that forum are pro's who dont mind helping out. The reason I say this is that earlier this year I ordered some of their epoxy primer and asked this question to Barry the owner.(does primer color change final color) and he said absolutely not. I'm sure he wont have anything good to say about omni, It seems to be hated along with nason for a variety of reasons. Their # is 404-307-9740 Super nice guys with great customer support.

[machoneman]

Good idea (calling for some pro help) but I would disagree (primer color) .

Maybe the specific higher quality paints you were talking about or the exact brand/type of paint discussed wasn't affected by primer color but many are. And I'm no painter! But, I've seen the effect often on various colors and/or custom paints like candies, metalflake and those color changing,flip-flop topcoats (forget the name right now).  So, I do believe he's right in that some, even most paints aren't affected but I don't believe one can say ALL paints aren't affected by the color of the primer. It depends on the opacity (translucence)  of the paint.  


 

[cjetmech]

Ya your probably right. But I know these guys at SPI come highly regarded and I've had great dealings with them. And they could give some guidance on how to correct this. This has been discussed over there before and some guys say it doesnt matter while others say if it does make a diff, you havnt put enough paint on yet. I bet its the omni paint itself and needs to be applied in more than 2/3 coats to get the right shade. How many coats would equal the thickness of the paint on that stick? 10? A higher grade paint would prob cover well with just the normal 2/3 coats. But thats just my opinion which aint worth jack.

[machoneman]

I agree with you (and Jay) on it being the paint's thickness. It'll be interesting on what he does to fix the issue. Yep, I think the same as well: adding a few more coats should IMHO make the color just right.

If Jay's testing proves this to be true, does he shoot on a coat or two over the current paint (my choice) or add a new base coat (on top of the current paint) and re-shoot? Strip it all and start over? Yikes, glad it's not mine to decide!

[jayb]

I'm probably going to end up shooting a new sealer coat, and then adding however many coats of paint is required to make the color right.  The reason is that there is some bodywork on the car that I'd like another crack at.  One big thing is that when the car was having trouble starting at Drag Week, I had a bunch of guys helping me push the car around.  On the passenger side quarter, somebody pushed too hard against the side, and probably oilcanned the chinese quarter panel.  That's an assumption on my part, because there isn't a dish in the panel, but up at the top edge you can now see evidence of this issue; just a couple of little creases right at the top.  Not enough to bother me most of the time, but with all the time I spent on the body work on this car, I want it to be right.  Fixing this means shooting a bunch of primer surfacer on the area and block sanding it, so the paint in this area will be gone.  And given the apparent sensitivity of this paint to the thickness of the coats, I couldn't just shoot the rest of the car because the body repair would be a lighter spot than the rest.

Similary, the hood still needs work.  Next time this car is out in the spring (hopefully), it will be fitted with the sheet metal intake I spent so much time on, and the hood opening will have to be different.  Hopefully I'll have a decent scoop in place as well.  So, the hood is also going to be a different color before paint.

Bottom line is that I'll need to shoot a coat of sealer over the whole car to ensure that the paint color is consistent.  I'm really hoping that a darker colored sealer will allow me to shoot 2-3 coats of the color and have it look right.  Otherwise, I'll be shooting a ton of color coats on that thing.

[e philpott]

the test panel is a great idea that most custom shops out here already do it.....  it seems the machines get it close but not perfect as most of the shops I know of say it sometimes takes quite a few tries to get the mix perfect .... House of Kolors recomends a sealer that matches the color chosen closely just to get full coverage quicker , but I still think you need to take your time with test panels and keep having them tweek the mixture until paint match is perfect

[Qikbbstang]

Jay:
         A certain import brand imported into the South East via Jax Fl is almost universally two-tone'd here. (perhaps a tax thing) Said importer/distributor runs an assembly line and more high end down-draft booths then you can imagine.  I supply the filters to those booths.  You can have no idea on the matching that goes on to produce the correct shades, I might go as far as say the undercoat even effects this as does the clearcoat. But I have to say that I know for darn sure drying is even part of it/ they use about 7"x7" plates and cure them just as they do the cars/trucks in the booths. A really sophisticated shop should be able to"match" just about anything. I'd suggest getting with any of the major auto paint companies or if you have a prefered shop get with their chosen Co's Rep to run it up the ladder for you.
 I know body a shop I do business with had a metalic silver late model Ferrari that got chipped to hell on the front end open-tracking. Tthey about went nuts matching the color/shade and size ,distribution and density of the flakes. They painted that F$%^% Ferrari for a week.  I recall years ago when I worked at a Ford/Linc dealer the guys were rasing the painter because a blue Cougar's repaired section would change colors depending on the light and angles you looked at it unlike the factory paint on the car.

[My427stang]

Jay, be sure to spray any metallic paint at the pressure and viscosity identified by the manufacturer and probably the MOST important thing is make sure the paint is mixed well in the can.  You wouldn't believe how much a well-shaken can "changed colors" on me when I was a kid and "knew better than my dad"  It didn't take long for me to learn that the metallics needed to be carefully mixed

I used to do a lot of insurance work and spraying silvers and other mostly metallic paints can look very different with just a pressure or tip change on the gun, not as critical for a complete, but when blending a panel you want it as close as it can be.  Silvers can get much more "silver" and these light blues and light greens act very much like silver as well.

Light blues also tend to be a little transparent as others have noted, but certainly the difference between your car and the striped stocker are more than just primer and pressure.  I would be amazed if your car darkened to match the stick though just with a few more coats.  My guess is your car was a bench mix, or some other factory color from a different vehicle make or model.

Also, I have found those spectrometers to be very very close if the guy is good at using them. Not sure what happened for yours.

If you really want to shoot the car in the color you want, maybe you should prep some test panels, (tape an old door or hood into 4 panels and buy 4 pints of colors you are on the fence with) clear the whole panel if you are using b/c then decide on a color