Author Topic: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE  (Read 101813 times)

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ScotiaFE

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2012, 06:39:04 PM »
I plugged those numbers into a calculator and it bruped out
53 HP gain.
That is completely in the range you will see GETTING RID OF THE POWER SUCKING OUT OF BALANCE FAN.



Barry_R

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2012, 07:12:19 AM »
I recall seeing about 12HP....

machoneman

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2012, 08:37:38 AM »
Found an excerpt from the May 2000 CC fan dyno test (the article itself has dropped off the 'Net's radar due to age but I do remember these numbers to be accurate):

 http://www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Archives/Archive-000024/HTML/20000821-1-001706.html

So, if our poster had the "worst case" fan setup beforehand and switched to a zero load electric fan/pump during a run (fan switched off, no pump turning) then that 1/2 second gain comes closer to reality.....still I wonder. 

Bob Maag

afret

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2012, 02:32:41 PM »
Any updates?  Got hold of a nice blue one.   :)


jayb

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2012, 03:31:17 PM »
Before I can do those I need that trunnion table finished that I was talking about in the other thread.  But after that I will get going on those adapters; I told Rob I'd have them ready by around Christmas.  We'll see if I can keep that schedule (for a change  ::))
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

afret

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2012, 04:04:28 PM »
Thanks!  Sounds good to me.

jayb

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2013, 03:56:19 PM »
Finally got my 4th axis and trunnion table setup on my CNC machine, so over the last week I've been working on trying to make adapters for the 55 gpm CVR electric water pump to fit on the FE.  The four day weekend that is ending today has been a big help on this.  After starting on the drawings last weekend, this weekend I got to work on defining the actual machining operations.  I had to start with some pretty large stock to build these things, 6061 aluminum blocks that are 3" X 4" X 5"!  As I made up the drawings I tried to determine the best way to machine the part, and concluded that I could start with the block in the vise and machine some of the adapter, but then I would need a fixture to finish them up.  Here's a picture of the start, with the block clamped in the vise and one end of the block machined for the shape of the right side adapter that bolts onto the engine block:



The photo shows the end facing out, but during the machining operation the trunnion table rotates up 90 degrees so that the holes are facing up, allowing me to machine those and also to finish machine the outside surface.

Next I spent the better part of the day building the fixture for the right side adapter.  This was simply a set of vise jaws for the vise that had the shape of the machined end of the block cut into them.  I wasn't sure exactly how this was going to work out, but it came out pretty good in the end, and the jaws do a really nice job of clamping the part securely.  Here's a photo of the partially machined block clamped in the custom vise jaws:



With this finished up I was able to start programming the remaining machining operations on the right side adapter.  This took the better part of a couple of days, and I made some mistakes along the way, but overall for a first prototype the part came out looking pretty good.  Here's a couple of pictures:





And here's a shot showing the adapter bolted onto the CVR pump that fetorino was kind enough to send to me when I started messing around with this project:



Note that there is one small piece of the adapter that is bolted in place on the main block.  This piece is there to provide one of the mounting holes for the stock Ford triangular alternator mount bracket.  I decided to make this from a separate piece of material, because if I had included this as part of the original piece of billet aluminum, I would have had to start with 4" X 4" material, instead of 3" X 4".  The 3" X 4" aluminum bars are expensive enough...

Next I decided to mock up a normal Edelbrock water pump on an engine, along with the factory alternator brackets, and then remove the Ed pump and bolt on the CVR assembly to see how the fit was.  I haven't been working with any blueprints here, just measurements, so I expected to be off a little on some of the bolt hole locations.  So, putting the Ed pump on first and getting all the brackets tightened before swapping in the CVR adapter and pump seemed like a good way to check everything.  Here's a photo of the Edelbrock pump on the engine:



When I bolted on the CVR pump and adapter I was pleasantly surprised at how close the mounting holes were.  One hole should really move down about .050", but other than that everything lined up beautifully.  I did run into one unexpected issue, though, and that was interference between the CVR pump and the factory triangular bracket.  In order to make the factory bracket fit, I needed to file a small notch in the bracket; you can see it near the lower right bolt hole of the triangular bracket in the photos above and below.  Seemed like no big deal, though, and the bracket is still perfectly functional.  I also could have machined a corner off the CVR pump itself to allow the factory bracket to fit without interference, but since it isn't my pump I decided I'd better not do that  ;D



Here's another shot of the area behind the pump with a Shelby timing cover installed.  I assume that the standard Ford timing cover will also fit, but I need to check that to be sure before I finalize the design.  But in any case, there is clearance from the back of the CVR pump to the timing cover:



Finally, just to check the front extension of the CVR pump as compared to an Edelbrock or stock pump, I bolted the Ed pump to the left side water pump mounting hole and took the picture below.  The Edelbrock pump sticks out about 1/2" farther than the CVR pump, so there should be no concerns about the CVR pump being too close to the radiator:



I need to make a few minor modifications to the machining programs, but the right side adapter is pretty much complete at this point.  For the left side adapter I have to start from scratch again, making the drawing, machining the block, and then making up a second set of vise jaws for fixturing the left side so the machine work can be completed.  This will take me at least another couple of weeks to get finished, but hopefully by the end of January I can be manufacturing these things for people who may want them.  It will be nice to have a 55 gpm electric pump available that bolts onto the FE...



Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

machoneman

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2013, 04:09:00 PM »
Very cool Jay and the pics are great.
Bob Maag

afret

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2013, 05:26:12 PM »
Looks great.  Looking forward to buying a set.  Thanks for doing all that hard work.

BTW, will the adapters use o-ring seals or regular gaskets?

fe66comet

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2013, 05:48:55 PM »
I just have to ask why go through all that when you can buy a pump that goes right in like the Meziere HD I am going with?

jayb

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2013, 06:19:52 PM »
I just have to ask why go through all that when you can buy a pump that goes right in like the Meziere HD I am going with?
Two reasons.  First, the Meziere pumps are not available in 55 gpm for the FE; they sell a 35 gpm and a 42 gpm.  If you call Meziere and tell them you have a 650 HP street engine, they will tell you that their FE pumps are not big enough, and that you should go with one of their remote 55 gpm pumps.  So if you are running any kind of serious power (650+ HP), and you want to put the water pump in the stock location, then you need a bigger pump than the Meziere (at least according to Meziere).

Second, none of the aftermarket electric pumps allow the use of factory brackets for alternators, power steering pumps, etc.

The adapters I'm working on will allow retention of all factory brackets and the use of a CVR 55 gpm pump.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

jayb

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2013, 06:22:11 PM »
Looks great.  Looking forward to buying a set.  Thanks for doing all that hard work.

BTW, will the adapters use o-ring seals or regular gaskets?

I was figuring on just setting it up for gaskets, because you never know if the block surface would be good enough for an O-ring seal.  But I could also put an O-ring groove in there, I suppose.  That would offer an advantage for assembly and disassembly.  I'll have to think about that...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

fe66comet

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2013, 06:37:56 PM »
I do know I gained 3 mpg on my dump truck just going to an electric fan. The fan/ clutch weighed a ton how much not sure but I gained some pep at low rpm also but it is not a high HP application for sure. I did not realize the meziere does not fit right on by application they state the heavy duty model has 55gph and the right mounting face kinda receiving I guess? As far as a better set up for the same price, where do I send the money order LOL.

fe66comet

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2013, 06:49:03 PM »
OH BTW pumps are designed to a certain flow rate at a designed rpm rang, if you spin it faster it will not flow any more it will run dry on the suction side and suck air. You really have to start with larger ports and impeller. I would think adapting say a 460 drag racing high volume might work?

jayb

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2013, 07:07:19 PM »
I think you are probably mistaken about an FE pump from Meziere that runs 55 gpm for an FE; they don't make that available as far as I can see from their web site.  And if you just compare one of their pumps with a factory water pump you will see that all the mounting bosses are missing, so no factory brackets will bolt on. 

Before I started this project I took a Meziere 55 gpm pump for a 429-460 and adapted it to my high riser engine.  That was such a pain in the neck that I decided I'd be better off starting with the CVR pump...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC