Setting the fuel pressure...

[My427stang]

You guys are being awful nice to me    Especially when I learn a ton of stuff from you three heavy hitters!

I'll do it, aint nuthin but me making excuses for being lazy anyway

[HolmanMoodyStroppeGang]

Street trim vs Drag Trim

Hey Ross,,,,who da havy hitta here? Hmm    JAY,,,that is fur sure

I would pin the mounts, we did it on the Drag TEam Cars for FORD and I kept doing it for years after. Grade 8 countersunk allen bolt through the left mount, both if you wish, and a castellated nut, USFine we used, then a cotter, or safety wire.

But you'd have fun.  I would add, figure out your merge collectors and collector extensions

Develop the tune against the weather and the barometer, density altitude, track temp, grip and launch

Free up the front end. Adjust anything you can to allow the pitch roll to fight less, including, disconnect and or pull off the front sway bar. Get some adjustable front shocks to hold the weight transfer longer

Measure the roll out of both slicks, then don't be afriad to drop the perssure so that at the hit of the tire, the sidewal works

Ballast the car if needed, just a bit can help her track straight

Consider a rear mount battery.   Figure out some cold air induction and maybe drop in a low thermostat to keep her cool.  or cooler...

Consider a way to drop some water out of it to cool it down quicker between test runs.

Maybe drain the ethylene or propylene glycol, use water, water pump lubricant and even water wetter. Antifreeze can leak and really bust a tire loose fast. Anti freeze is banned on many tracks due to this. Water is much less dangerous if it gets under somebody's tires

Get a good puke tank to catch any boil over.

Maybe get a short belt to only spin the water pump, not a fan or alternator,,,,,or at least get a field bypass,   You can use an old fiberglass flex fan that has just a little parasitic drag...

Preload the car if needed...this can be by way of ballast out back, or shims on the right perch sometimes, or, many things, using the bars and traction devices, like just the snubber adjustments on some old Lakewood style slapper bars,,,which hauled back when in Super Stock

Get a velocity stack or airhorn stub,,,,or baseplate

Get jet extensions if she launches hard enough to uncover the mains

Add a QT oil if you wish

Lower the viscosity if you wish

Bring a spark plug tree to read and hold on to the plugs, then write every adjustment and et in a notebook and compare it all. Note the bite, air, temp, settings

Watch the competition and see what car of your weight, and power level, has the best 60ft120 ft and 330 ft times. Use them as a tuning target.

Have a pal video the whole run. Then disect it step by step. How flat the car launches, how well it transfers weight, and how well the chassis reacts, how the tracks look after you make your run, and everything else.

Figure out when and where the car ET's best on the shift points. The Dyno sheet can help here as can short shifting in to high and so on

Figure out some retard amount for the car to MPH down track and as she winds...

Retard done right is a lot of free MPH for us usually

Look in to a bolt in roll bar

Mount a fire extinguisher in the car

Use a tell tale tach if you do not use a lap top to down load your data for the pass

A tell tale or tattle tale Tach is good to check how and where you actually shifted

HAve the best door car guy you know, stand behind the car. This is so helpful. Have him watch, look, listen and think it through.   A seasoned and trained eye watching everything that you do from behind, and a good eye in the standsm, or down track, can be a huge help...when you need to make dial in calls

Lots more but have fun

And on the respect coming your way, hey, you take a lot of valuable time helping. I respect that, it is a asset to FORD Racing

So your praise here was deserved, and well earned ,,,people get paid on line, well, for providing good advice and decades of experience to new racers and builders,   Plumbers get paid for online advice,,,,,,many trades do...so you earned it as have many other voices that try to help the FORD family

Most importantly    Have fun and keep smilin !

[My427stang]

All that stuff you listed, neat for a racer, not for me, just being honest.  When I do it, its for a short adventure, nothing more and I have no desire to change the personality of the car.  In fact, if I put a set of drag radials and ran fast enough to get told to park it, I'd likely be done.  Ever see the Tom Cruise movie, Days of Thunder?  I am the grumpy old mechanic that builds for the racers, not the racer, in fact I'll likely apologize to the car for my indiscretion    

FWIW though, not as much tuning for me and no jet extensions, etc.  Its a port injected engine, quick release laptop bracket inside, I run it in any scenario, it logs everything, and a couple key strokes and I can change almost anything with a laptop and change it right back if I don't like it

[ScotiaFE]

All that stuff you listed, neat for a racer, not for me, just being honest.  When I do it, its for a short adventure, nothing more and I have no desire to change the personality of the car.  In fact, if I put a set of drag radials and ran fast enough to get told to park it, I'd likely be done.  Ever see the Tom Cruise movie, Days of Thunder?  I am the grumpy old mechanic that builds for the racers, not the racer, in fact I'll likely apologize to the car for my indiscretion    

FWIW though, not as much tuning for me and no jet extensions, etc.  Its a port injected engine, quick release laptop bracket inside, I run it in any scenario, it logs everything, and a couple key strokes and I can change almost anything with a laptop and change it right back if I don't like it

Pretty sure Ross your Hot Rod will rip off a 11.50 no problem with some rubber and a good technique.
After that you need a bunch of safety gear including a spec roll bar.
As for Paul's setup your spot on at 6.25 psi.
Although at the track your setup would not pass tech. No fuel stuff on the firewall.
Looks great though. 

[Yellow Truck]

Not that I want to detract from the fun everyone is having with this thread - but I have a basic question this morning. To make sure we have the right size power valve we need to check the vacuum. All the instructions assume an automatic. I have a stick. First, does the vacuum increase or decrease when you put load on the engine, and what is the typical change?

I'm not crazy about trying to load the engine while stationary using a clutch.

And don't feel bad about the hi-jack - this question isn't related to fuel pressure either. BTW, because we had a slight leak coming from the bowls when we put them back after setting the fuel levels we took them off again and changed the gaskets. It was late so we called it a night and yesterday I ran the pump again to fill the bowls and make sure we didn't have any seepage. Good news was no seepage, but the fuel pressure had crept up above 7 psi, and the bowls were both filled to the tops of the sight glass. I confess some bad language was used. Today I'll drain the bowls again and we will re-set the levels. I'm hoping this is because we removed the bowls and metering blocks to change the gaskets out.

I don't understand why the fuel pressure crept up, but I'll set it down around 5 psi and keep any eye on it.

While I'm at it, Autolite says to install the plugs dry, I thought I'd seen recommendations to oil the threads - any opinions?

[Posi67]

You don't need to drain the bowls to set the level just run the motor. If you do drain, just pull one of the lower bowl screws and drain into a small catch can. Setting the level is easy with those clear sight plugs just remember that the big screw on top of the bowl is actually the lock and the nut below it does the adjusting. Logic wants you to think it's the opposite and I've seen so many guys spray fuel everywhere and adjust nothing. Turn the nut clockwise to lower the float. Sorry, I can't answer your power valve question properly so will leave that to someone more qualified.

As for the plugs (spark plugs, correct??) ... Never Seize is always a good idea especially if using aluminum heads. Doesn't need much but removal will be easier later on.

[Yellow Truck]

Posi67 - thanks, but we have not fired it yet, so need to go the drain route. Have already done it twice so getting pretty good at catching the gas. I have some anti-seize I can use on the spark plugs.

Still hoping someone has a suggestion on getting the vacuum number.

[Joe-JDC]

Vacuum usually goes down with load, and increases without a load, such as at idle or light cruise on a straight and level road, or down hill.  Whatever the vacuum is at idle without a load, divide that by two, and get the next smaller power valve.  ie 14 inches of vacuum with load(in gear with park brake applied/auto) and divide by two gives you seven.  A 6.5 power valve would be just fine.  The number is stamped on the side or top of the power valve.  With your standard transmission, just start engaging the clutch with the park brake applied, and watch the vacuum for lowest reading just before stalling in gear.  Divide that by two, and use the next lower number power valve.   Joe-JDC

[HolmanMoodyStroppeGang]

Quickly

Ross can run any non sanctioned track all day without a cage and we do it all the time, so do others.

Fuel pressure can be dialed in old school, like a tuner. Run the car through the 1/4 over and over, reducing the PSI until she noses over.   When she goes lean and slows down,increase it a pound maybe....but any setting in this range is fine....this is not a race car.

If you do pull fuel away, until she noses over(slows down due to lean mixture), you know the low range, but again, Holley spent millions developing their products, and the standard hi vlume Holley mechanical comes with 7 1/2 PSI for many good reasons

One key reason? VAPOR LOCK

When a FE car gets red hot after 4 hours of towing in a desert, or getting hammered real hard, like rode hard and put away wet ..   hard. they get hot. We raced FEs about 24 hours for the BAJA 1000 and they could cook and cook since they were to the wood mostly.  We learned a lot by winning a lot.  Oil coolers are important, so is a deeper sump on a C6, and so on,,,,double trans coolers with ducted fans, etc,,,

The block, heads, trans, exhaust, and all related parts, can hold a lot of BTU's....then the engine can get shut off, go to restart and be quite unhappy.  It heat soaks to such high temps can cause your fuel can percolate, boil off, bubble and cause hot start problems, and performance issues, big time. And the engine can have abig swing in Air Fuel ratio, and the fuel curve settings,  We don't like that

Higher fuel pressure,  PSI, reduces this ill effect, kind of like much higher radiator PSI, in a cup car reduces steam pockets in the heads.  Using a nice carb spacer made of bakelite or phenolic, or sandwiched gaskets with aluminum plates, helps. Use at least the factory plastic or aluminum carb spacer,

All lines must be positioned far away from the hottest heat sources,, like exhaust manifolds, the exhaust flange area of the heads, and any other source of high radiant heat. Strategic ducting of cool air coming in and around the core supprt for the radiator can help remove heat,,,easy

The shielding is good on many builds, a simple heat deflection barrier, just tin you see on many OEM cars

The higher PSI can help raise the percolation point, or decrease these deleterious affects, and, cool the fuel source by compressing it just a bit more. Cooler fuel can yield better power too,,

Granted,,,,,a 390 GT Mach 1 for example, had, 3/8 lines, and a single diaphragm,  5 to 5 1/2 PSI small style mechanical pump.  But this was fine for a small 4300 series motorcraft carb.  As soon as you stepped up to a FE with a factory Holley, you saw the system engineered with 3/8 line and the better pump....the CJ Fe's for examples, and Bosses...

Once you took those cars, added cam, headers a bigger Holley, open exhaust, bigger jets, more compression, and so on, the 7 PSI system helped the car ET more consistantly....A high launch RPM and low gears factored in

You are fine PSI wise, the issues are now the tune up, for me

Tuning
her and making it your own,,,,

Get it close and break it in settings....Run her 100-200 miles and let the engine work itself in, get happy and loosen up a bit.  I usually set it 'under center'. Set it a bit retarded on the total timing, and a bit rich to be safe.

I also still run it in, break it in, change the oil, let her cool all the way down and re torque all of it.  Seat the rings, do a leak down and compresson test,,,,,etc.   As she breaks in, the idle RPM can go up a tad, the oild pressure may settle down a few pounds, the engine will sound stronger, and it will come in to it's own....

We re snug everything....Exhaust, muffler clamps, headers, the heads, rocker shafts, intake, carb, front drives, lets see   fan H2O pump, radiator clamps big time, radiator mounts, bellhousing, re tighten the belts, check it all....snug the oil pan, valve covers, plugs,,,,all of it

Then we tune

I do it how we did it at FORD to certify fleets of FORDS for Cal Emissions

For ever, just install a t fitting between the vacuum advance hose, that goes to port vacuum,,,below the primary throttle blades,,,,,

Run the line inside the car, either through the fire wall, or, out the crack in the hood, around and inside a window, then mount a large vacuum gage in your line of vision

Bring a note book

Now drive the car through all of the terrain you like to use the car on.   Cruising, passing a car, climbing a hill, flooring it from a dead stop, from 30 MPH    from 50 up to 70 MPH, and whatever you like

Make notes, of when you feel the main circuits come in

You can feel the primary PV come in, say at 6.5 like big Joe suggested, and feel the rear PV, if applicable   say the 75  80 or 8.5

Now, do the drill

Change the front 65, to a 70, drive it, feel it

Try a 60, run it, feel it, listen close, use your Butt Meter to feel how hard she pulls

If you desire the best 1/4 mile ET, tune the PV's to net the bet ET and time/speed

If she is basically a cruiser, and once in a while, bruiser, then dial the PVs in to do this nice

Read the plugs after you pick your PVs and give her a tank of gas, or 20-30 miles at least.

Take these plugs, put them on a plug tree....or holder numbered to display all 8 plugs and the color, for comparison

Install fresh plugs, color them with some use, then have the best plug reader you know, opine.

Reading plugs is a science for top performance.  It is a huge deal for a racer, or, a well well tuned V8

Use magnification, and do research to find out what to look for

Remember,,,,,your 4 V,,,,be it a holley, carter, AFB, QF or Weber, has 3 circuits to mess with   idle, transiton, and main jets

and, secondary opening, and acelerator pump shot size, and timing

Get a tutorial or book for better exploration

We dial stuff on chassis dynos too, depends on the goal.

OK 2 macro thoughts and tuning schools.  You can develop 2 tune ups.  One can rely on the power valves, transition circuits and idle circuits more, and the main jets less......ao, vice wersa...less PV fuel and more main jets. Size wise...One make a better darg mobile, the other has a leaner economy mode for fuel mileage and economy.

A 3rd set up, or state of tune can be your Grudge Race tune....for when you have a big race....more jet, more timing, loose the exhaust pipes and air cleaner maybe, and hit er hard,,,,this is all your call

Gotta run, but have fun, nice job, and have a blast amigo

Email any of the tuners here, maybe those with the biggest tune up book,,,,like Joe there, he has decades and decades of wisdom, and a great attitude, and many awesome builds, over a life time,,,,,and Ross,,,and shucks,  if Detroit Barry sold ya the carb, get his input,,,and Quick Fuels,,,,and do the work

Tune her sharp man, razor sharp.  And if you feel a bit unsure, just be conservative and run a bit less total advance, and a bit more jet...

Also, dial in how the vacuum advance comes in. This is very important because if done right, and very methodically, it also reveals a lot of power, and less detonation, and economy...and ET

Set the total timing by power timing it, and writing that down. Vacuum advance removed and plugged, spin her up to 3000-4000 in the shop, and note the total advance.....write it down,,,,,use it to tune off of.

You have quick burn heads, that is another learning curve as to total advance,,,,,start low,,,,,call BBM, maybe run 32 total then bump her from there, in 1 degree increments.  Our old true FORD heads liked more total,,,,especially on race gas and over 12.5 to 1.  We ran 14.5 to 1 quietly in the NASCAR and PRO STOCK programs, for example....mixed gas, used tricks to not hurt it,,,,,interesting tricks too

Be consistent on the type and octane of the fuel. This is   very important. If you are deaf, like me, you may get a knock sensor light some day,,,,,to never miss a ping when the stereo is blasting away and you are gabbing away with some fine thang,,,,,your lady

And try low octane, a gallon or 2,,,and learn how bad she wants to ping if you get a bad load of fuel
  This happens, stations sell premium that is actually regular..all the time, they make a lot more money and could care less about breaking your ring lands, or detonating the moly off of the top rings, etc

have fun

Much more to share, this can get you started

Ross is a real good tuner too

Many are

If a person makes a living doing this trade, building engines, tuning Hot Rods, and if they have decades of work in their tune up book, listen to them and say thanks

Last thing,,,,never trust any blog if an anonymous expert is just re typing group speak from the blog. A lot of false theories get life by repetition, Be your own engineer and do your own dial in. And be wise and careful, make baby steps and never hesitate to ask experts, or pals with a similar build.   Break her in with a safe base tune up..

You are a conscientious builder, that is great

Chip away at that stone

Proud of your attention to detail

Thanks to all of you guys. The above is just an essay to hopefull stimulate a nice guy to have more fun, and gain some cool results from his ride....and of course, there are many ways to skin an onion.

I enjoy when we all, chime in, to add any relavant idea, and help one and other.   Over the years, I have a lot from some people on the web. I have shared what FORD was so gracious to share with us, out of respect and gratitude...

Ford tough

Smoke em hard     for Henry   (Ford)

Todays tasks include,,,,Magneto mounts for a blown FORD FE  and    mocking up SOHC drive parts to manufacture

Thanks now

Oh oh  Larry Knapp is feeling a lot better, still on bed rest and medication

I gave ya 30 minutes, that is 60 bucks in our shop

And this was fun, spoke to Don The Snake after this, for 20 some minutes,,

Will be at the break in and burnout for the Super Snake....and for fun

The Injecor has 62 nozzles,,,,a blank in it,,,,and 40 degrees oof lead in tha pretty new Cirello Magneto

It is cackling hard and getting shot by Rodders Journal, soon

Prudhomme is eager to start doing some nice long burnouts in it ,,,,,,,soon

[cjshaker]

I gave ya 30 minutes, that is 60 bucks in our shop

Well I guess that pretty much covers....everything.
Where does he send the check?

[afret]

Not that I want to detract from the fun everyone is having with this thread - but I have a basic question this morning. To make sure we have the right size power valve we need to check the vacuum. All the instructions assume an automatic. I have a stick. First, does the vacuum increase or decrease when you put load on the engine, and what is the typical change?

I'm not crazy about trying to load the engine while stationary using a clutch.

And don't feel bad about the hi-jack - this question isn't related to fuel pressure either. BTW, because we had a slight leak coming from the bowls when we put them back after setting the fuel levels we took them off again and changed the gaskets. It was late so we called it a night and yesterday I ran the pump again to fill the bowls and make sure we didn't have any seepage. Good news was no seepage, but the fuel pressure had crept up above 7 psi, and the bowls were both filled to the tops of the sight glass. I confess some bad language was used. Today I'll drain the bowls again and we will re-set the levels. I'm hoping this is because we removed the bowls and metering blocks to change the gaskets out.

I don't understand why the fuel pressure crept up, but I'll set it down around 5 psi and keep any eye on it.

While I'm at it, Autolite says to install the plugs dry, I thought I'd seen recommendations to oil the threads - any opinions?

I assume you have a dead head regulator.  With those you should really have the engine running to set the regulator.  I think you have a reasonable chance of getting a different pressure reading if you run the pump with the engine off. They are also very sensitive to any debris.

You might consider a return style regulator.

[Yellow Truck]

Wow. Ok, all that is at the edge of my knowledge, but I know enough to now to start to follow it. I don't want to hire anyone, what is the point in that. It is about learning what you can by reading and what people who know can tell you, then going and finding out what that actually looks and feels like with your own hands.

Looks like I have a summer of fun ahead of me.

[ScotiaFE]

I gave ya 30 minutes, that is 60 bucks in our shop

Well I guess that pretty much covers....everything.
Where does he send the check?

He will still be 40 short of what he owes Dale.

[Joe-JDC]

Fuel pressure creep is a sure sign the needle tip is soft, or wrong one.  You need to make sure the rebuild kit had parts that were compatible with methanol/alcohol/ethanol/gasoline mix.  The fuels of today will deteriorate the rubber/viton that was used a few years ago.  I just had to replace a carburetor on my lawn mower that had a rubber needle and seat because the fuel had softened it to the point the tank kept draining into the oil.   Joe-JDC

[HolmanMoodyStroppeGang]

I gave ya 30 minutes, that is 60 bucks in our shop

Well I guess that pretty much covers....everything.
Where does he send the check?

He will still be 40 short of what he owes Dale.   Ha ha funny,,,,I wish you guys joy, happiness and a lot of smiles.   I think the poster could use your suggested tune up calls, and your input on dialing her in.  Maybe suggest his jet ranges, and help him get some plugs charts, and so on,,,,,be well guys

Talked to Prudhomme for 25 minutes today,,,,what a nice man, and funny, and awesome...all good, all positive, all business,