Author Topic: Gaskets  (Read 1740 times)

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mike7570

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Gaskets
« on: January 27, 2024, 01:21:46 AM »
First time I’ve used Cometic gaskets and it’s the first leak I’ve had in 9 engines. Fired up new 428 for break in and found water in the oil.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2024, 02:19:28 PM by mike7570 »

Jb427

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2024, 01:40:22 AM »
I did not have any problems with mine but there are spots to check I can't remember the spots but I am sure my intake gaskets had to be trimmed it spots or they would not be sitting right I used MR gasket intake gaskets. 

blykins

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2024, 07:05:19 AM »
What block, Mike?
Brent Lykins
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Rory428

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2024, 09:12:24 AM »
Mike, you aren`t using the cork end seals for the intake manifold, are you?
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

fekbmax

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2024, 10:46:27 AM »
Proper deck and head surfacing ? It for real makes a difference with MLS type gaskets.
If it's a standard type deck surface and you find it is the head gasket you can coat the gaskets with a thin layer of hylomar (or copper coat 🙄) and continue on.
Keith.  KB MAX Racing.

mike7570

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2024, 11:51:18 AM »
BBM block (new) Edlebrock heads (new) no cork on end seals. Block decked and heads machined.
Nothing obvious to me why it’s leaking yet.

XR7

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2024, 12:49:23 PM »
Well that sucks... sorry to hear of your troubles. I have used Cometic's many times, never a leak. I have even re-used Cometic's several times on my own engine, no leaks. I usually put them on dry the first time, and use copper coat when re-using them again. I have used Hylamar before also, but it is hard to get a nice thin even film, and the spray tip clogs and is hard to use the second or third time. The copper coat covers nicely more like paint, seems to work just fine, that is what I use now.                                                                                                                I have built a few engines with BBM blocks, I remember someone having an issue with water leaking into the lifter bores. I pressure tested them before sending them to the machine shop. One even had some porosity showing in the lifter bores, but they didn't leak. I think one fix if they did leak was to install lifter bore bushings. I almost think you had that done on yours didn't you? If so that should rule that out. I think you are on the right track though, pressure test it and see where it is coming from. There is also the oil passages coming from the #2 and #4 cam journal, up to the decks for rocker oiling, that goes through the water jacket and can leak, usually on old pitted blocks, I can't imagine that being the case on a new block but you have to check everything I guess, one never knows where a pinhole can be hiding, where you can't see it...
68 Cougar XR7 GT street legal, 9.47@144.53, 3603# at the line, 487 HR center oiler, single carb, Jerico 4 speed, 10.5 tires, stock(er) suspension, all steel full interior

SSdynosaur

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2024, 01:16:59 PM »
E-mail sent

blykins

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2024, 01:31:16 PM »
I've had a lot of issues with porosity on BBM stuff.  You'll find it with a pressure test, but I doubt that it's a head/intake gasket issue.  I use Cometics all the time, never a leak. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
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mike7570

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2024, 02:57:33 PM »
FOUND! 
« Last Edit: January 27, 2024, 04:01:55 PM by mike7570 »

mike7570

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2024, 04:00:48 PM »
Cometic gasket and BBM block.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2024, 02:14:03 PM by mike7570 »

blykins

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2024, 06:51:17 PM »
Never made any plugs like that.  Sounds like the plugs are more leak-prone than not using them.
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
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Rory428

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2024, 07:46:55 PM »
Found out it’s a plug in the deck of the head to re-align the water passage opening with the Cometic gasket and BBM block.  When heads are milled the edge of the plugs threads were too close to the intake surface and developed a pin hole. Got instruction how to take care of it without pulling the head. Whew!

Not visualizing what you are describing Mike, any chance that you could post a photo or 2?
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

dozz302

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2024, 07:51:28 PM »
"Found out it’s a plug in the deck of the head to re-align the water passage opening with the Cometic gasket and BBM block."
If these are all new parts, then why will everything not bolt together seamlessly.

mike7570

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2024, 07:59:40 PM »
The BBM block has some issues, too thin in the lifter bores when indexing and enlarging lifter bores for bushings. Steam hole locations in the deck that don’t align with gaskets and heads. Oil galley plug that are threaded too far.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2024, 02:29:05 PM by mike7570 »

winr1

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2024, 09:59:27 PM »
I bet a reg hog Brent an others have informed BBM of the problem .... yeah ??


Ricky.

blykins

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2024, 06:38:52 AM »
I used to, but I'm no longer allowed to sell BBM stuff. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
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Barry_R

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2024, 09:03:30 AM »
I have seen water migration across the deck with Cometic gaskets a few times.  The emboss bead around some of the coolant/oil passages does not completely go around the opening in some blocks - leaving a portion of the bead overhanging the opening.  Another thing to check....

Stangman

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2024, 05:05:40 PM »
I used to, but I'm no longer allowed to sell BBM stuff.

Brent what do you mean your not allowed t9 sell them. Can you say or mums the word.

blykins

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2024, 05:22:33 PM »
Was black-balled from selling their stuff.   That's probably all I'll say in public.
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

Rory428

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2024, 09:23:10 PM »
Before I bought my TFS heads 2 years ago, I had been patiently waiting for BBM to have their aluminum heads back in stock. But. like their FE blocks, it seems that other than intake manifolds, they have had nothing available for FEs for sale in at least 2 or 3 years. So I don`t know how much of a hardship not being able to sell non existent FE parts really is. Unfortunately, it seems that many FE parts "suppliers" have good intentions, and may make a batch or two, of parts with sporatic delivery, and then it just goes away. With all those photos showing racks of new  FE heads and blocks, in a modern, hospital clean, manufacturing facility, I had really hoped that BBM would be a different story, but it appears not to be the case.
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

mike7570

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2024, 10:57:30 PM »
Barry R -  Which one is off, the block or the gasket? I’m also concerned about the depth the pipe plugs thread in before they’re tight on the outside oil galley. Seems they go in about 3/4 inch from the outside of the block. How far is too deep ibefore they interfere with the oil passage?

« Last Edit: January 28, 2024, 11:06:11 PM by mike7570 »

blykins

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2024, 04:50:40 AM »
You are ok on the gallery plugs on the side.  I’ve never had those occlude the main oil passage and they’re all sunk in like that.

You do have to watch the depth on the main oil gallery plug on the front of the block though, the one next to the timing cover.  I usually have to chop it off pretty extensively.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2024, 05:45:38 AM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

Barry_R

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2024, 08:34:07 AM »
Send that picture to Cometic. 
Please.

I spoke with them at PRI about that exact issue - but I did not have an image to forward to them.
Restricting that big coolant hole won't matter - but they NEED to "jellybean" the emboss bead around that hole so that it will seal on various blocks.
I have seen several - including my own - with rust on the deck from coolant migration across the surface.

...and agree with Mr. Lykins on that front galley plug - we need to shorten those all the time.

XR7

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2024, 03:22:44 PM »
So Mike, what is the plan to seal that hole better on an assembled short-block? I would almost think that putting some epoxy into the one side of that hole would work. It could be just slightly below the deck and still seal? Something like splash zone or JB steel putty, two part epoxies might work. Splash zone tends to sag longer set time but easy to form and sand after, the steel putty is stiffer and might stay in place better, sets up a little quicker. Wonder what other "work arounds" there might be??? On an un-assembled block drill the hole and put an aluminum threaded plug in there, and mill it down even to/with the deck.
68 Cougar XR7 GT street legal, 9.47@144.53, 3603# at the line, 487 HR center oiler, single carb, Jerico 4 speed, 10.5 tires, stock(er) suspension, all steel full interior

mike7570

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2024, 10:59:36 PM »
I was advised to use a little sealer like TA-31 at the mismatch and the head bolt torque should prevent any leaks across the deck. Cross my fingers! Since my block is iron I don’t think there would be an easy way to plug and move it.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2024, 02:11:52 PM by mike7570 »

Tunnelwedge

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Re: Water in lifter valley
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2024, 05:44:04 AM »
I use Cometic head gaskets on a Genesis block with BBM heads and had to drill oil holes
in the gaskets to get them to work.
edit: I consider them reusable, I've reused mine. Torqued them at least 5 times now. I ran the engine took the heads off had a look
put the same gaskets back in and it's been running now for 5 years. I see no reason not to reuse them when I pull the heads again.   
We will see though. ;D

Triva: The drawing for the C3 head gasket.





« Last Edit: January 31, 2024, 06:33:52 AM by Tunnelwedge »