Lykins Motorsports 434ci Clevor, 777 hp/630 tq

[blykins]

Performance Summary:
      Cubic Inches:  434             Dyno brand: Stuska
      Power Adder:  Not necessary  Where dynoed:  Dale Meers Racing Engines
      Peak Horsepower:  777 @ 7000
      Peak Torque: 630

Horsepower and Torque Curves:


Engine Specifications:
   Block brand, material, finished bore size, other notes:  Ford Racing Boss 9.200" Deck
     
   Crankshaft brand, cast or forged, stroke, journal size:  Callies Dragonslayer, steel, 4" stroke
     
   Connecting Rods brand, material, center to center distance, end sizes, bolts:  Crower

   Piston brand, material (caster, hypereutectic or forged), dish/dome volume, static CR:  Diamond, 2618, flat top, 13.5:1

   Main Bearings, Rod Bearings, Cam Bearings brand and size:  Clevite main/rod bearings, 55mm roller cam bearings

   Piston rings brand, size, other notes:  Total Seal, .043/.043/3mm low tension

   Oil Pump, pickup, and drive:  Melling Select

   Oil pan, windage tray, oil filter adapter:  Milodon front sump

   Camshaft brand, type (hyd/solid, flat tappet or roller), lift and duration (adv and @.050"): Custom Lykins Motorsports solid roller

   Lifters brand, type:  Morel, .903"

   Timing chain and timing cover:  New factory style

   Cylinder heads brand, material, port and chamber information:  Ported CHI 3V 208cc, 2.25/1.75 Ferrea valves

   Cylinder head flow in cfm at inches of lift (28" H2O pressure drop):
      Intake               Exhaust
      .100               .100
      .200               .200
      .300               .300
      .400               .400
      .500               .500
      .600               .600
      .700               .700
      .800               .800

   Flow bench used, location:

   Intake valve brand, head size, stem size:

   Exhaust valve brand, head size, stem size:
   
   Valve springs brand, part number, specs:  Manley Nex-Tek

   Retainers and locks brand, part number, specs:  Manley titanium

   Rocker arm brand, type (adjustable or non-adj), material, ratio:  T&D paired

   Rocker shafts and stands, brand, material:

   Pushrods brand, type, length:  Trend

   Valve covers, brand, type:  Blue Thunder

   Distributor brand, advance curve information:  MSD crank trigger

   Harmonic balancer brand:  ATI

   Water pump brand, type (mechanical or electric):  CVR

   Intake manifold brand, material, porting information:  Ported CHI 3V

   Carburetor(s) brand, type:  Quick Fuel 1050 4500

   Exhaust manifolds or headers brand, type:  Dyno headers

[1968galaxie]

I am not sure why the "FE Engine Dyno Results" is being used to showcase other engines.
Perhaps Jay should flag these and remove them - or create another posting area for "other engines"

Directly from the first post in this section:

This board is for posting information on the dyno results you have for your FE engine.  I have put a suggested format below, and put a couple of example engines on the board to start with.  You can copy the format from this sticky, and paste it into your post, and then fill in the information.  If you don't have all the info (very few people will), don't sweat it, just fill in what you have.  If you have a photo of the engine, either on or off the dyno, please post that also.  Comments always welcome.  Hopefully this board will turn into a useful repository of FE engine data.

[blykins]

From what I understand, Ross asked Jay if it was ok....

If not, I'll take it down.  No biggie.

[Stangman]

That being said that’s a bad bitch right there.

[jayb]

I'd rather not see every run of the mill non-FE engine, but an interesting build like this one is OK.  No Chevys, though    Would love to see head flow numbers and cam specs on this one...

[machoneman]

Hey, I want to see it and if it's o.k. with Jay......its fine with me.

[1968galaxie]

Minimal specs will be given - as this is a blatant form of FREE ADVERTISING on this FE forum.

No wonder there are less and less users on this once busy forum.

Very sad to see.

[TJ]

Minimal specs will be given - as this is a blatant form of FREE ADVERTISING on this FE forum.

No wonder there are less and less users on this once busy forum.

Very sad to see.

All the upside down whackiness in the world and this is what bothers you?  Being a pill is no way to go through life.  You (everyone) needs to find what makes you happy and focus on that.

[blykins]

So the FE dyno results aren't free advertising?  How does that work? 

Perry, you're the only one who will praise me in one post and cuss me in the next.  You need more fiber in your diet, brother.

Jay, it's a 260cc port that flows 400 cfm.  Cam specs were 260's/270's at .050" with .825" lift at the valve.  It also has a GZ Motorsports vacuum pump on it, which I forgot to add up above. 

Car is a '69 Mustang.  Runs 9.70 at 141 mph with a 1.58 1st gear Powerglide.  He had aspirations of spraying it so he wanted a softer dig.  Would love to see what it would do with a real transmission LOL  It doesn't come on hard until half way down the track.

[fryedaddy]

dont get me wrong,i love anything FORD,the only downside i see is,if i were a young man and i wanted to build an engine,a post like that 777 hp would make a youngster say, to hell with the fe,im building a Cleveland. my dad had a junkyard when i was younger,i would have went the other way with influence like that,how many 777 hp 400 inch FEs do you see out there? sorry,i still liked seeing this post.

[TJ]

dont get me wrong,i love anything FORD,the only downside i see is,if i were a young man and i wanted to build an engine,a post like that 777 hp would make a youngster say, to hell with the fe,im building a Cleveland. my dad had a junkyard when i was younger,i would have went the other way with influence like that,how many 777 hp 400 inch FEs do you see out there? sorry,i still liked seeing this post.

I had the same initial thought but then realized this clevor has 13.5 compression, a vacuum pump, and spins to 7grand... so got to keep it all in context.

[blykins]

I will tell you that Clevelands/Windsors/Clevors can make lots and lots and lots of power.   That 777 hp 434ci Clevor is not out of the ordinary. 

But I will also tell you the Clevelands/Windsors/Clevors don't have near the pedigree of a Ford FE.  Nor the nostalgia.  Nor the looks. 

[1968galaxie]

A new sub forum labeled "Non-FE Dyno Results" would certainly help.
Flathead forums do not showcase FE's.
Pontiac forums do not showcase sbc or BBC's.

Many, many have left this once awesome forum. Now it's dominated by half a dozen users.
Again, sad to see.

[blykins]

A new sub forum labeled "Non-FE Dyno Results" would certainly help.
Flathead forums do not showcase FE's.
Pontiac forums do not showcase sbc or BBC's.

Many, many have left this once awesome forum. Now it's dominated by half a dozen users.
Again, sad to see.

Can't say I agree with that.  On the first page of new posts, there are 15 different users that started threads.

If many have left this "once awesome" forum, it wasn't because of 2 SBF dyno result threads....

[1968galaxie]

You rarely agree with any of the "older" crowd on any FE forum.

Cheers.

[Stangman]

Difference between Cleveland and clever ?

[blykins]

A Clevor is a Windsor block with Cleveland heads. 

[Stangman]

Thanks that’s what I thought.

[cjshaker]

I will tell you that Clevelands/Windsors/Clevors can make lots and lots and lots of power.   That 777 hp 434ci Clevor is not out of the ordinary. 

But I will also tell you the Clevelands/Windsors/Clevors don't have near the pedigree of a Ford FE.  Nor the nostalgia.  Nor the looks.

Not surprising, given the fact that, setting aside the Hemi, the Cleveland head is probably the best (vintage) OEM head ever designed for a performance engine. And while I think the FE is the best looking Ford engine, a well dressed Cleveland with a tunnel ram would tie for 2nd in my book, alongside a well dressed 2 or 3 carbed flathead. All great looking engines.

Nice stout build, Brent. What RPM was peak torque at? Assuming it was fairly high, he'd probably have better results with a well built 3 spd.

[blykins]

~5500.  Agreed.  The PG just isn't a good fit, especially with that high 1st gear.

[Tunnelwedge]

Some confusion. You sold this customer an engine/cam that does not work well
with their transmission gearing and it's the customers fault?

[blykins]

Some confusion. You sold this customer an engine/cam that does not work well
with their transmission gearing and it's the customers fault?

But let's think of options here on what could have happened:

1.  Car was finished way after the engine was finished and the goals changed as the car progressed.
2.  Had originally planned on a C4, but the engine made so much power that the customer decided on a PG.
3.  Customer thought he may like to spray to hit 1000 hp and then decided he wanted the high 1st gear ratio to help with that.

[My427stang]

Great build Brent. 

[Tunnelwedge]

Lots of detailed photos of the machining and build also
videos of this 9 sec Stang would be cool.
Why not do a cam change and dyno it again to match the gears now?
When did you build this engine?
It's your small block ad on the fepower.net.
You are always light on detail.

[mike7570]

Some confusion. You sold this customer an engine/cam that does not work well
with their transmission gearing and it's the customers fault?

Tunnelwedge, have you used a power glide before?  I raced with one behind my 452ci tunnel port motor in super-gas. A power glide is better suited to dial in or .90 racing. It is probably the quickest releasing on a trans brake, has the smallest hp loss and weighs less than any other transmission. My car may have been slightly quicker with a 3sp such as a good C-4 but it would leave better and be more consistent with the 2sp. I ran it with a C-6 for a while but it's a heavy trans that takes up a lot more room and it just won't get the reaction times down as low as a glide. So for dial in racing or .90 classes the power glide is probably the best choice.
Mine ran 141 @ 9.50's with the 1.98 1st gear ratio so he giving up some et with his current 1.58 first gear.

[351crules]

wasn't there a sub forum for non fe builds? anyway, nice build.

[Joe-JDC]

Giving out specifics stopped when certain FE "gurus" stopped giving information, and only posting "atta-boys" for their customers.  I was always open and willing to give out flow data on heads and intakes until everyone started comparing "X" with "Y" abilities.  I still check in with Jay's forum daily to see what is new, questions relevant to Fords, or what is happening.  Giving out camshaft specifications, compression ratios, ring packages, cylinder wall clearances, crankshaft and rod clearances is a plus if the builder wishes to give them, but that is not anyone's right to that knowledge just because they come on the forum.  If I built a 900hp FE, I certainly would not give out the specifics of camshaft lift, duration, lobe separation angle, compression, head flow, or intake flow, etc.  Brent usually is very open to most information, and if he chooses to keep his custom order camshaft's specifications to himself, then that is his right.  JMO, but if he quit posting, things would really be dead here until Jay wows us with something new.  Joe-JDC 

[fekbmax]

^^ what Joe said ^^
      Agreed 100%

[gdaddy01]

I like seeing the Cleveland posts, by a guy that gives us a LOT of free information on fe's from small ci to high dollar bigs.

[shady]

If a magician reveals how the magic trick is accomplished, it's no longer magic.

[frnkeore]

My take, though no one will care.

We are not here for magic, we are here for info.

If you not going to fill out the dyno form, as accurately as possible, then Jay should get rid of it and let everyone post what ever info they want.

I had thought the the forum was to help everyone build these unique engines and don't believe in holding back anything.

I've never like the GM copied Clevelands so, I'm prejudice on that issue.

[shady]

you're right, I don't care. Knowledge has value that someone paid for one way or the other to learn it, why give it away is all I'm saying.

[Chrisss31]

If Brent were posting for free advertisement, who is it hurting?  Knowledge and experience do have value, yet Brent openly shares here on a daily basis for free.  In return, maybe he picks up a customer, maybe he gives someone the confidence to do a job themselves.  Who really cares?? 

[fryedaddy]

knowledge that is not shared is eventually lost knowledge.

[badcatt]

knowledge that is not shared is eventually lost knowledge.

That statement is a fact.

[TJ]

knowledge that is not shared is eventually lost knowledge.

I greatly appreciate the advice from all the folks who offer it up here.  I surely hope the few Statler and Waldorf types don’t spoil that.

As for sharing of information, I’m pretty sure none of the builders here are patenting their engines.  All you have to do to gain your knowledge is buy an engine, or engine component configured to your needs/wants and copy it. 

Coca Cola is not patented either.  It’s a trade secret.  So buy a can and copy it.  It’s that easy. 

Hopefully this will help discourage the wet blanket treatment so we can keep on enjoying all the useful info we’ve been giving and getting.

[blykins]

I find it really troubling that some guys think that they are entitled to the intellectual property of others. 

Person 1:  "I've been at the dyno all day long.  I've spent $1000 on cams and spent an 8 hour day there swapping cams out." 

Person 2:  "Give me your information or I'll throw a tantrum and threaten to leave the forum."

[My427stang]

I am on Brent's side here, we all share a lot of information, and by sheer volume of builds he shares more. However, a chef doesn't readily give his recipe, but people still love to eat out. 

We all have some secrets that keep our builds slightly unique, we also benefit from some of the best customers in the world through these forums. So yes, it is a balance.  However, the guys attacking don't seem to be customers or even friendly to him, and not recent behavior either, the names come up again and again.  It seems to be a witch hunt...in fact the issue wasn't what cam was in the engine, it was a non-FE build being hung, which I did too a week ago or so, but shifted as it always seems to for Brent

I can only speak for what I see and if someone comes up with an issue, guys like Brent, and I like to think me, run to the sound of the guns to help. Failure to give exact cam choice in an otherwise incredibly detailed built sheet posted in the dyno session is odd. 

[1968galaxie]

I agree also that there are "proprietary" components/ideas to an engine build.
Brent certainly has his ideas and others do as well - That is what makes this hobby (or profession) fun.

Is this forum used by individuals to advertise their private business? Of course.
Same happens on Yellow Bullet, Speed talk and every other forum.
It is a quick and cheap way to advertise -

I do think non-FE builds, dyno tests, information etc.. should be posted on the NON-FE discussion sub- forum.
Calling out members of the forum as trolls for suggesting this is crazy@!

[My427stang]

I do think non-FE builds, dyno tests, information etc.. should be posted on the NON-FE discussion sub- forum.
Calling out members of the forum as trolls for suggesting this is crazy@!

I didn't even think of that when I asked Jay if I could hang my Cleveland results, sort of an obvious and fair option.  My email to him was actually, "where did the non-FE dyno page go? " But it never existed.  Not sure why I thought it did

We've had MELs and Y-blocks, seems like the complaint is about Brent not the Cleveland dyno.  Can't help with that, but I have seen behind the curtain with him many times and he bends over backwards to help people.  I am not an internet friend, basing my opinion on posts, I have pulled wrenches along side him and consider a trip to KY to be a highlight when I can make it.

[1968galaxie]

I didn't even think of that when I asked Jay if I could hang my Cleveland results, sort of an obvious and fair option.  My email to him was actually, "where did the non-FE dyno page go? " But it never existed.  Not sure why I thought it did

It does exist:
FE Power Forums »FE Power Forums »Non-FE Discussion Forum
https://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?board=3.0

[My427stang]

I didn't even think of that when I asked Jay if I could hang my Cleveland results, sort of an obvious and fair option.  My email to him was actually, "where did the non-FE dyno page go? " But it never existed.  Not sure why I thought it did

It does exist:
FE Power Forums »FE Power Forums »Non-FE Discussion Forum
https://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?board=3.0

There is no dyno section there, period, and I contacted the forum owner directly before I posted.  If he would have said put it there, I would have put it there.  As much as I would like to push back, you get a little credit, that is a good idea.

Nobody is fighting you here, you seem to think that Jay saying it's OK beforehand wasn't enough, and you keep changing what you are upset about... I have no beef with any of this, but you can't argue what the forum owner says, it isn't my forum and it isn't yours....just let it go.

BTW - On edit - Go look at the forum you are trying to keep pure...3 Y-blocks, 1 Boss, and 3 MELs before our Clevelands showed up.  This isn't new

[Heo]

I didn't even think of that when I asked Jay if I could hang my Cleveland results, sort of an obvious and fair option.  My email to him was actually, "where did the non-FE dyno page go? " But it never existed.  Not sure why I thought it did

It does exist:
FE Power Forums »FE Power Forums »Non-FE Discussion Forum
https://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?board=3.0

There is no dyno section there, period, and I contacted the forum owner directly before I posted.  If he would have said put it there, I would have put it there.  As much as I would like to push back, you get a little credit, that is a good idea.

Nobody is fighting you here, you seem to think that Jay saying it's OK beforehand wasn't enough, and you keep changing what you are upset about... I have no beef with any of this, but you can't argue what the forum owner says, it isn't my forum and it isn't yours....just let it go.

BTW - On edit - Go look at the forum you are trying to keep pure...3 Y-blocks, 1 Boss, and 3 MELs before our Clevelands showed up.  This isn't new

   What he said,,,, stop throwing sand at each other, if Jay okayed it then its okay nobody is forced to read it

[machoneman]

Ah! Just think how much better it would be if a few left for Yellow Bullet's forum.

[Barry_R]

I suppose I could add a couple thought to this.

I don't think I have ever posted dyno information on this part of the site.  A few customers have added data with my builds or parts I supplied.  I had other venues for dyno builds at the time, did not think it was appropriate.  Since most of the other venues either no longer exist, are essentially inactive, or have devolved into something of limited or no value - I should probably put some stuff out here. 

I view any information provided here as a "gift" - knowledge and hard earned experience shared for free.  Questions, suggestions, and clarifications are always OK, but openly aggresive criticism of the builder, parts and application seem very inappropriate considering the casual reader has nothing invested in the effort.  In this case Lykins gave you a free hamburger, fries, and a Coke - and a couple guys are bitching that they did not get free ice cream too.

I like seeing a few non-FE examples from time to time.  They provide some comparative context, and help with goal setting.  The Cleveland architecture was the unquestionable high water point in vintage engine cylinder head development for Ford, and were arguably better than many of the subsequent efforts.  To add some FE flavor to this, I had a 433 inch EMC effort that reached 710+ HP (on pump fuel) at 7500 RPM.  It was a dramatically high effort and cost package.  The fact that this Cleveland derivative made so much power at a far lower cost and effort level speaks volumes about the combination.  At 1.45 TQ/cube the "C" headed deal is a genuine bad ass.  Goal setting...

[driveamerican]

Thanks Brent and everyone else that hangs their ass out their just so we can bitch.

[TJ]

Thanks Brent and everyone else that hangs their ass out their just so we can bitch.

Ha !  Now that is about the size of it 

[Drew Pojedinec]

A new sub forum labeled "Non-FE Dyno Results" would certainly help.
Flathead forums do not showcase FE's.
Pontiac forums do not showcase sbc or BBC's.

Many, many have left this once awesome forum. Now it's dominated by half a dozen users.
Again, sad to see.

Can't say I agree with that.  On the first page of new posts, there are 15 different users that started threads.

If many have left this "once awesome" forum, it wasn't because of 2 SBF dyno result threads....

Was probably due to people whining about free advertisement instead of just saying “sweet engine build Brent!”

Oh and sweet engine build Brent!