Intro and current project

[turbohunter]

Yes, I press them in.
And work them as well as lube as I go.
Today's drive to work will tell.
2nd day is when they've been giving up.

[turbohunter]

Let me preface by saying, I'm really tired (as I'm sure you are of reading) of talking about ujoints instead of engines but....... in the interest of information here we go.
I did some dumpster diving to get the box from the new joints and compare to the old box I had and what did I find?
First, the old joint I had in the garage was a different number than the new one.
But take a closer look.
The old ones were made in the USA the new ones are made in Mexico.
Looks like Moog gets crossed of the list.
BTW the old one is holding fine on day two.

[Barry_R]

I worked for those guys - Moog is  Federal-Mogul division.
A proud history but a clouded future...

They just purchase u-joints - they don't make them.  And I would suspect that they have a little more pride in what they toss in a box than do the white box mystery metal folks that populate the parts store business these days.  But I can pretty much promise that the days of aftermarket engineering and testing of outsourced components is behind them now.  They "trust" the vendor to do that stuff.

As I have said before - an offshore product can be perfectly fine and good quality.  The machines do not know where they are plugged in or who is hitting the buttons.  But if you tell a company or a person in other parts of the globe that your primary interest is how cheap you can get a given product - they will deliver you the cheapest product they can provide.  Unlike most domestic suppliers they make no assumptions of minimal quality or strength.  Their only point of reference may be a vehicle with 40 horsepower...

[My427stang]

Something is goofy here, those two numbers dont interchange, one is a 1310/1330 joint, the other is 1310 only

If both fit, one was misboxed, if both are different, not sure how you could have used it

I can't see how you could have used the adapter joint, but who knows

I think something goofy went on here, freak bad joint, hit something when pressing in, bad run, etc.  Hopefully it was a freak of nature and you can just drive it now.

[NIsaacs]

Is it possible the drive shaft is out of time?

Nick

[turbohunter]

Nope, the shaft is phased.
Ross, I wonder if the numbers are "revised" with the switch to Mexican manufacturing.
Remember the top one is 18 months older and made here. The bottom is new and made in Mexico.
Also one more number that I don't have yet of new joints. Supposedly heavy duty.
I broke four joints, one was the bottom number, 3 were the heavy duty number that I'll get today.

[NIsaacs]

The heavy duty version of the #369 is #280. I can't imagine 4 bad joints in a row. Are they all breaking the bearing shell like in the picture you posted or are some breaking the cross? How about a picture of the installed drive shaft, especially the differential yoke end.

Nick

[turbohunter]

Yes 280 sounds like the number.
And yes they all break at the seal groove.
Yeah it kinda drove me nuts for 2 weeks. I questioned everything I was doing after a lifetime of no probs.
But it really seems to me it's a manu/metal problem. And I'm not a basher just a realist.
BTW just measured the width and it was a chore to press the caliper to 3.22.
1310s should measure 3.219. I know that's close. I only mention it because the Mexican joints were a tight fit in the yoke. The old American joint fell right in.

[Joe-JDC]

Has your axle twisted in the clamps?  Is the pinion angle still correct or have you installed a lift kit and not changed the pinion angle?  There has to be a reason why they keep failing.  Joe-JDC

[My427stang]

I wonder if they have the wrong caps and when you push them in you are pushing on the leading edge of the cap against the body of the joint.

[turbohunter]

That's kinda what I'm thinking. Something is screwed up in their manufacture.
Trans output and pinion are 2 degrees away from parallel. The shaft angle is 7 degrees to the pinion.
There is a slight lift done with new springs but nothing big, just a couple inches.
Have been working my way back to the rear as far as replacing/rebuilding things.
There is some slop in the ring and pinion so I think my next deal will be to rebuild the rear end, adjust driveline angle to parallel and go to 1350 yokes and joints.
So far it seems that it's just inferior parts that are failing in a not perfect environment. The four foreign parts failed and the USA part is doing fine.
I know the driveline angles aren't perfect but they're not that bad for a low rpm 4x.

[blowrsnob]

Yes 280 sounds like the number.
And yes they all break at the seal groove.
Yeah it kinda drove me nuts for 2 weeks. I questioned everything I was doing after a lifetime of no probs.
But it really seems to me it's a manu/metal problem. And I'm not a basher just a realist.
BTW just measured the width and it was a chore to press the caliper to 3.22.
1310s should measure 3.219. I know that's close. I only mention it because the Mexican joints were a tight fit in the yoke. The old American joint fell right in.

IMHO. Nailed It!
From what I know about U-Joints..  the fact that the Mexican part (the one that failed early) is a larger O.D. than the American part (the one that's still alive) would likely cause very high pressure on the needle bearings (as others have suggested) in each of the bearings caps that are a tight fit whenever said tight cap rotates through the 'pinch point' since U-joints aren't constant velocity the bearing clearances have to be right. Next up, as you say, would be addressing the operating angles which your traction bars have been partially doing.
Interesting info about the MOOG/Federal Mogul two tier quality issue, coincides with an input from a trusted auto mech/racer who has also informed me that there are two quality levels available from MOOG. From what I was told one has to be very specific in the request for "MOOG American Made" in order to get the good stuff, and the price is commensurately higher.

[cjshaker]

I'm going to agree with Barry's comment about "Spicer". Moogs quality has slipped a bit from what I've noticed. I do believe they have 2 lines also, good and better. Or in todays world, cheap and decent.

No way is the slightly off driveline angle causing the problem. LOTS (that's L.O.T.S.) of trucks, including mine, have much more of a driveline angle difference and don't bust joints like yours have been. At least not that fast. I replaced mine 20 years ago and they are still fine, AND they are the greaseable type with the zerk in the body AND suffer from severe axle twisting under a hard load, not having any bars on the rear. The fact that they were so hard to press in tells me that quality is a bit off. They shouldn't be that hard to press in, and I'm sure you've done this enough to notice the difference between snug and TIGHT. Being that tight is putting undue pressure on the caps, and they are very hard/brittle. With the top of the cap being solid and the bottom open, a really tight fit can slightly oval the open end. It may still turn easily, but the pressure will work its evil magic. I've also never been able to overtighten a strap using just a 1/2" wrench, which is what I always use.

I'd go with Spicer, and if they're still really tight, maybe run a brake hone in the yokes to enlarge them a bit. I'll bet your problems will disappear.

[turbohunter]

Update on the traction control topic from a few pages/months ago.
I tried the rigid bar in all the positions. The rear was the best as it flattened the bar the most. But it was still at a non ground parallel angle. Thus it was still binding the suspension.
Bought a set of shocks that mimic the t bar length and installed them. Viola, perfection.
The rear feels very tight yet does not bind. No pedal flop from the rear end rotating.
Did a big burnout and no wheel hop.
Seems great so far.

[My427stang]

Very nice, I appreciate you pioneering the effort and saving me time on my F100