Intro and current project

[Bolted to Floor]

The higher the fuel pressure, the more likely it would be to push past the needle and seat after the float has raised up to stop flow into the bowl.

When you going to take another video so we can go for a ride? 

[turbohunter]

When you going to take another video so we can go for a ride? 

Was thinking about that but a little different. Thinking of using a GoPro underneath to watch the rear suspension work.
I'm not happy with the ride now because the traction bar set up, though working well for traction does not allow the spring to do its job.
I believe this is because the t bar is at an angle because my truck is lifted a bit. Thus when the spring tries to compress the t bar keeps it from doing that, making the ride not as supple.
Have thought of two ways to solve it.
One, buy a set of shocks to go where the solid t bar is.
Two, extend the t bar anchoring point up at the axle so that the t bar sits level, thus rotating with the axle instead of pushing to the front stop and stopping the spring flex.

[machoneman]

Maybe a few pics here would help us to visualize your suspension issues? 

[turbohunter]

Here you go Bob.
You see the axle end of the bar is lower than the front point.
So when the axle tries to go up it gets stopped by the bar being forced into the front mount.
I think that if I build taller rear towers or use a shock it will allow the axle to move naturally.
Watchya think?
Edit
You know, just looking at that second pic, if I move it to the rear hole that would gain me a little altitude. Might help the geometry a bit.
Think I'll try that first.

[4twennyAint]

Take out the polyurethane at the front and stick a decent valve spring in there...watch for coil bind!

[turbohunter]

Take out the polyurethane at the front and stick a decent valve spring in there...watch for coil bind!

What a great, out of the envelope thought.

[machoneman]

Yes, I'd try the 2nd hole first and check the results.

Two more thoughts. Getting the bar as near parallel to level methinks would help and going to the 2nd hole alone won't do it. Instead, you could easily fab-up a pair of flat steel plates and mount them to the two existing holes with bolts. When fabbing, the new plate could have 3-4 holes drilled to allow some angle changes ala' a Pro Stocker's 4 link setup. I'll try and get a pic first and give my 2nd idea.         

[turbohunter]

Yes, I'd try the 2nd hole first and check the results.

Two more thoughts. Getting the bar as near parallel to level methinks would help and going to the 2nd hole alone won't do it. Instead, you could easily fab-up a pair of flat steel plates and mount them to the two existing holes with bolts. When fabbing, the new plate could have 3-4 holes drilled to allow some angle changes ala' a Pro Stocker's 4 link setup. I'll try and get a pic first and give my 2nd idea.         

Yes, exactly my thoughts.
Would love to see your pix.

[machoneman]

Pic:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Alston-Race-Cars/064/181314/10002/-1

Not the best pic but....look to the left for the multi-drilled plate. Could not find one with arc drilled holes but....one could space said holes on a small arc to allow the bar to move back, so to speak, as the bar flattens out when it get near parallel to the ground.

Got it! The Bickel pic shows the arc I speak of that one could replicate with those 2 steel plates bolted to the existing holes.

http://www.jerrybickel.com/rear-suspension-and-components/front-4-link-brackets-jb-012a.html

The second thought was with all those springs (9?) does the suspension really work at all or is it bound up like a solid mounted rearend?

 

[turbohunter]

The second thought was with all those springs (9?) does the suspension really work at all or is it bound up like a solid mounted rearend?

Believe it or not, it's very supple.
I had those custom built.
They are very progressive so that the ride is real nice.
As you load it they get progressively tougher.
Notice how thin the leaves are, then overloads at the bottom.
That's why the stack of nine.

I think I can fab a piece that will work nicely to level out the t bar.

Love the spring replacing the bumper idea also.
I'll try a few things.
Should be fun.

[Bolted to Floor]

What about this thought process?? The springs basically move up and down in a straight line as they compress and return to a normal state, but the T bar moves in an arc. When the springs compress, the arc of the T bar causes the pinion to roll up. So, is raising the attachment point up really the correct answer? It seems like that would make the problem worse. The farther away from the spring pack, the more leverage the T bar gains to upset the balance. Or am I out in the broccoli patch wandering around? 

I did have an 85 Mustang GT that used a “shock” of sorts from the axle to a forward point on the car for wheel hop. It wasn’t a 4 X 4 with the kind of power you have, but it worked pretty well on the car.

[machoneman]

What about this thought process?? The springs basically move up and down in a straight line as they compress and return to a normal state, but the T bar moves in an arc. When the springs compress, the arc of the T bar causes the pinion to roll up. So, is raising the attachment point up really the correct answer? It seems like that would make the problem worse. The farther away from the spring pack, the more leverage the T bar gains to upset the balance. Or am I out in the broccoli patch wandering around? 

I did have an 85 Mustang GT that used a “shock” of sorts from the axle to a forward point on the car for wheel hop. It wasn’t a 4 X 4 with the kind of power you have, but it worked pretty well on the car.

Yes, exactly....which is why I said earlier that the suspension must move freely to work. The bar may be well preventing the correct movement of the rearend under compression...and allowing the bar to move in an arc with those add-on plates, ala' a true 4-link suspension and the holes drilled in an arc, should free up the movement and avoid the pinion twisting up.

One way (not that easy) to check this would be to mark the location of the rearend and remove all but the master spring but leave the bar. Using a floor jack, moving the rearend up and down would show the arc the bar takes as it moves up (compresses).  No doubt as it moves up the back of the bar moves back, twisting the pinion up, yet also revealing where the arc holes should be at various points.  A chunk of thin wood bolted in place (or those steel plates) could then be marked for the needed arc hole locations for drilling. The goal here is to also ensure the free, non-binding or non-twisting movement of the rearend due to the bar's effect.  That's why those Jerry Bickel 4-link brackets have those arc drilled holes. They are there not only to allow lots of adjustment range but also to ensure the bars do not 'work' to twist the rearend in unwanted directions.   

Btw, today using graphic software is how pro chassis shops check these issues. But, it wasn't that long ago using these crude methods to determine bracket and bar location points and lengths and actually see the movement of the rear suspension were used very successfully.         

[Bolted to Floor]

Looks like I was understanding the problem, but not grasping the solution.

Bob, thanks for the more detailed explanation. The fix will be to find the sweet spot to let it all move together?

Marc, That will a fun!! project to correct.

[machoneman]

Yep, and it isn't that hard to do either. Good luck!

[turbohunter]

Thanks Bob.
It does definately bind the system. Without the bar the suspension works well, but wheel hops under hard acceleration.
Hadn't thought about the pinion angle changing from the bar, only being held from rotating under acceleration.
Think I'll try the shock first.