Author Topic: FE Intake Adapter  (Read 327521 times)

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bsprowl

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #345 on: October 14, 2013, 08:08:28 PM »
Please tell us more about the coil pack ignition ...

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #346 on: October 14, 2013, 09:38:35 PM »
I'm going to use an EFI system, and just not run EFI on most of the manifolds.  The Megasquirt MS3X has inputs for a crank sensor and a cam sensor, and 8 outputs for running individual coils.  I've been buying these coils from DIY autotune:

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/ign1a-race-coil-p-394.html

You can run wasted spark if you just want to run a crank sensor, or in normal 1 spark per every other revolution if you put in a cam sensor.  All timing is adjustable from the laptop computer hooked up to the MS3X.  Individual cylinder timing can also be done.  No need for a distributor or an MSD with this setup, although you do have to fabricate a "half distributor" to run the oil pump drive.

Then, of course, if I want to test any EFI manifolds I'll be all set :D
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

JamesonRacing

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #347 on: October 15, 2013, 09:00:23 AM »
I'll bet the port area they are talking about is at the entrance from the plenum, not the exit of the runners.  The 2865 intake will definitely need some port matching.  The 2863 intake looks like it has the same bolt hole locations as my 2991 intake.  The 2991 intake is a much better fit to my adapter, so the 2863 intake might be an easier fit than the 2865.  All these 351C intake variations can be confusing.

If you get a hold of anyone at Edelbrock, let me know what they say...

I think you're spot on with the 2991 and 2863...since they fit the same heads, they should be interchangeable on the intake adapter.  I really like the idea of the 351 manifolds that are open on the bottom; better to show off the adapter below it  ;D
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #348 on: October 18, 2013, 11:10:38 PM »
After a certain amount of physical exertion, the following stack of aluminum was settled into my shop this evening:



That is a total of 57 intake adapters.  The more I carried in, the heavier they seemed to get  ;D  But I'm afraid my poor truck took the brunt of the abuse:





First op machining starts tomorrow...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

NewFalconOwner

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #349 on: October 19, 2013, 09:48:18 AM »
wow that's exciting :)

Joe-jdc

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #350 on: October 19, 2013, 11:32:09 AM »
I hope you have a means to recover the aluminum scraps from the milling operations.  You should be able to recycle/sale the scrap to help recoup some of the cost.  That is a lot of work you have ahead of you.  Looks exciting.  Joe-JDC

cammerfe

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #351 on: October 19, 2013, 12:33:22 PM »
Jay, is there enough 'meat' in those castings to be able to bore for injectors? Just a thought!

KS

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #352 on: October 19, 2013, 01:00:28 PM »
I hope you have a means to recover the aluminum scraps from the milling operations.  You should be able to recycle/sale the scrap to help recoup some of the cost.  That is a lot of work you have ahead of you.  Looks exciting.  Joe-JDC

Yes, I recover all the machining metal, but it only fetches $0.35 per pound at the local metal recycling place.  So its not a big cost reducer or anything...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #353 on: October 19, 2013, 01:01:25 PM »
Jay, is there enough 'meat' in those castings to be able to bore for injectors? Just a thought!

KS

Yes there is, Ken, although I haven't developed the machining operations for doing that yet.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #354 on: October 19, 2013, 07:34:22 PM »
Before starting the first machining operation on my production intake adapters, this morning I finished up "experimenting" with one of the adapters to make the Yates style intake manifolds work.  I have not yet done any port programs for these intakes; I wanted to just cut the flanges of the adapter to see how they would fit, and get an idea of where the port location was.  I had to take about .500" off the intake flange surface of my intake adapter to make the 2991 Edelbrock manifold fit.  Here's a couple of photos of the manifold sitting on the adapter:





One issue that presents itself with these manifolds is that with the reduced thickness of the adapter, counterboring for the bolts in the adapter that bolt into the FE heads has to be increased, and the adapter can get a little thin in this area.  I think I will have to supply special bolts, with reduced thickness heads, for intakes that are machined for these manifolds.  With those bolts I can counterbore less.  Also, the angle of the 1, 4, 5, and 8 ports in the adapter have to increase somewhat with the reduced thickness.  FE cylinders are on a 4.63" center, and 351C cylinders are on a 4.40" center, so the outboard ports in the adapter have to be angled to match the FE head port up with the 351C head port.  This is especially pronounced on ports 1 and 8.  When you reduce the thickness of the adapter, the angles of the ports in the adapter get bigger.  I'm going to be able to compensate for that somewhat, by reducing the width of the pushrod holes and sneaking the port a little closer to the pushrods, but there will still be more of an angle there than there is with the standard 351C intakes.  Hopefully that will be more than compensated for by the improved performance of the Yates style manifolds; we will see at dyno time.

After the Edelbrock 2991 intake I worked to fit up the 2865 intake.  This one was more of a challenge.  Just plunking it on top of one of the standard intake adapter, it was way, way too high.  I ended up machining my test adapter another .250" on the manifold surfaces to improve the fit of the 2865 intake.  That was as far as I wanted to go with machining the adapter surfaces, but the manifold still didn't fit correctly.  However, this intake has a very, very thick flange, just over .800" thick.  The 2991 intake, like most others, has a 0.500" thick flange.  After machining the adapter and test fitting the 2865 intake, it turned out that I can machine .300" off the 2865 intake's flange, and it will fit just about right on the adapter.  So, if someone wants to run the 2865 intake, there will be some custom machining to the intake required, but I can certainly handle that if necessary.  Here are a couple of shots of the 2865 intake sitting on the adapter; the flange of the intake has not yet been machined:





Developing the port programs for these two intakes will take some time, but I have a few weeks here before I have to worry about that, while all the castings get run through the first machining operation.  Lots still to do...  ::)
« Last Edit: October 19, 2013, 08:42:30 PM by jayb »
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

My427stang

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #355 on: October 19, 2013, 07:52:59 PM »
I like it....great work Jay

We need to get some 400 cfm heads to complement your intake design
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

JamesonRacing

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #356 on: October 20, 2013, 10:01:50 AM »
I wonder how the fit would be with the D-3 head manifolds?  They are designed for a 9.0" deck height, so they are likely a bit narrower.  Manifolds like the Edelbrock 2827, 2879, SVO M-9424-D456.  The SVO manifolds seem to be available at a great price on ebay, they aren't available in a 4500 pattern, but this could probably be fixed with some mill work.

That stack of castings is about the coolest pic I've seen this year.  Eagerly awaiting your completion of the first 31 orders!
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #357 on: October 20, 2013, 10:25:53 AM »
I wonder how the fit would be with the D-3 head manifolds?  They are designed for a 9.0" deck height, so they are likely a bit narrower.  Manifolds like the Edelbrock 2827, 2879, SVO M-9424-D456.  The SVO manifolds seem to be available at a great price on ebay, they aren't available in a 4500 pattern, but this could probably be fixed with some mill work.


Obviously I don't know enough about the 351C variants that are available; I was not aware that a short deck manifold was even out there.  I will have to look into that.  Thanks for the heads up, David...

Edit:  I just looked the Edelbrock numbers up on Summit's web site, and they don't look like they will fit.  The 2827 has the water jacket crossover cast into the intake like a Windsor, and also has a different port configuration.  The 2879 says its for a Toyota??  The SVO manifold looks like it might work, though...
« Last Edit: October 20, 2013, 10:32:33 AM by jayb »
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

JamesonRacing

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« Last Edit: October 20, 2013, 01:36:48 PM by JamesonRacing »
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

Joe-jdc

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #359 on: October 20, 2013, 02:45:07 PM »
The manifolds are cast with a very thick flange to be used on anything from 9.500" deck down to 8.900" decks on some configurations.  We have run the manifolds with the flange so thin that it needed a body washer to keep it from warping.  It is better to mill the intake flange than the intake adapter.  You can always use another intake on the adapter, but if you mill the adapter, then it becomes a "one only" adapter unless you mill another intake to mate to it at a later date.  JMO, but I have seen the manifolds milled to "within an inch of their life" so to speak, and still work well.  Joe-JDC