Author Topic: Flywheel bolts dug into block...how screwed am I?  (Read 22408 times)

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lovehamr

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Re: Flywheel bolts dug into block...how screwed am I?
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2012, 10:00:55 PM »
Did you remove the input shaft yourself?  Do you have any good steps for how to do that?  Another forum member had a good idea of placing the trans supported on the front in a vertical position so you could unbolt the retainer from the front and gently slide it out.

Dan, I did mine in the vertical position held by my huge chinese bench vise.  As far as I'm concerned vertical is the only way to do it because there is a set of roller bearings at the back of the input shaft.  If the input shaft is removed while the trans is sitting horizontal then there is a decent chance that you'll drop a bearing or 2 down in the trans.  No fun.  As it was for me, I had to use light grease to hold the bearing together while I re-installed the input shaft.  That’s the only thing that I found that might trip someone up, hope it helps.

Steve

drdano

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Re: Flywheel bolts dug into block...how screwed am I?
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2012, 09:01:47 AM »
I ordered a shim stack along with the different input shaft.  How many tries did it take before you got the end play in spec?

lovehamr

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Re: Flywheel bolts dug into block...how screwed am I?
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2012, 03:05:07 PM »
I really didn't change anything in the tans, all I did was have the splines machined back a little.  When I put it back together I just put everything back where it was before and didn't even check endplay.  So I'm afraid I'm not much help there.

drdano

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Re: Flywheel bolts dug into block...how screwed am I?
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2012, 09:29:40 AM »
An update of sorts on this issue.  For the transmission I ended up swapping to a long-input shaft on the TKO600.  This in itself was a big dabacle.  I found the short shaft had a mangled bearing cage on it from when it was originally swapped from a long to a short shaft, looked like someone used a clamshell on the cage to press it off and then just pressed it on the short shaft.  I notified the shop about the issue as a friendly heads-up and in the end the shop lost all my future business over how they dealt with the situation and how they treated me.  Especially when I never asked for a replacement, just wanted "gee, that sucks" apology and nothing more.

I digress.  So the long-input shaft was installed.  I installed a new bearing on the input shaft, had a shim kit and set the shaft end-play to the nothing-.005" spec in the TKO manual I have.  I ended up using an engine hoist and a chain to support the trans with the shaft straight up, worked well.  There are 17 roller bearings that live in the back of the shaft that need to go back in place, but greasing them up was more than enough to get them to stick there for final assembly.

Mocking everything back up again showed I was going to be too deep into the pilot bearing with the input shaft.  The splines on the input would be below the depth of the pilot face by around 1/16" since the pilot extends beyond the face of the crank by around 1/32" on my motor.  Taking the advice of a forum member here, I cut a 3/16" step in the pilot bearing, reduced the stepped diameter to 1.25" so it would be a snug fit into the next step in the 428 1U crank.  This allowed clearance for the splines on the input shaft as well as having the original width of the pilot for the input to ride on, rather than just cutting the pilot down thinner.



One thing I noticed when installing the clutch and everything in place is that I know I have much better clutch spline engagement.  The spline engagement starts around 1.5" from the trans fully seated.  The pilot starts to engage at .75" or so from seated and is A FREAKING NIGHTMARE to get that last push into place.  Part of this nightmare I think is because the crank centerline moved .0025 up in relation to the trans due to the block being re-align honed.  I reverified the crank centerline to bellhousing alignment and it was .0025-.003 high, which is still in the "less than .005" allowment for the TKO600 to shift reasonably well and not chew up the pilot to bad or cause bad high rpm shifting.  The second problem I noticed is that the plastic alignment tool I had was actually allowing the clutch disc to fall down slightly while the pressure plate was torqued down.  I again used a forum members advice and used my now spare short shaft as an alignment tool and supported it slightly with a small bungee cord to keep it as level as possible to the crank centerline while getting the pressure plate in place.  This made the trans engagement much easier, but it's still a bear getting that last 1/2" to slide into place.  I have a feeling with some road time this will get easier as the brand new pilot wears slightly.

Lastly, I ordered up a different set of ARP flywheel bolts that are a smidge shorter than the ones listed for the FE's.  These are 240-2801 that are 7/16" x .875 instead of 1.00".  With the flywheel in place the bolts are flush with the front face of the crank when fully torqued, so that is much better than having bolts hanging out there in the wind like last time.   :)

I'm feeling a lot better about the clutch and trans now and have learned a HUGE amount with this whole ordeal.  Nobody learns this stuff the easy way (unless they read this post and remember it I suppose), but that is part of what makes this fun I guess.

My427stang

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Re: Flywheel bolts dug into block...how screwed am I?
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2012, 07:16:30 AM »
Good stuff, should have all your issues fixed now!

---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

JimNolan

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Re: Flywheel bolts dug into block...how screwed am I?
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2012, 10:16:07 PM »
I'm using the standard depth Quicktime TKO600/T5 bellhousing, even though the TKO500 has a short shaft on it.  I started with the short version of the bell on my old 390 but it caused the input shaft to bottom out in the crank.  Oddly the combo worked a-ok on the 390, but there must be a minor difference in the crank flywheel mounting face vs block bellhousing mounting face distance between the old 390 and new 428.  The long input shaft should be 1/2" longer than I have now and resolve the issue.  If the splines bottom out in the pilot bearing, but the input doesn't, I'll take Cyclones advice and have the pilot machined to fit.  I really think everything should work, I've spent way too much time measuring and remeasuring it all.   ;)

drdano,
    Please give me some advice here. I've got the Lakewood TKO 15210 bell housing with the TKO 600 W/ short FE input shaft, best I remember it was 26 spline. My pilot bearing that went into the 390 crank was made by Mike Forte in Farmington, MA. It was the roller bearing type that he made himself ( I've got a spare ). DOES THIS 428 SCAT 9000 428 CRANK I'M GETTING READY TO BUY AND INSTALL WITH MY SETUP NOW HAVE TO BE REMACHINED TO FIT MY BELL HOUSING AND TREMEC TKO 600 TRANSMISSION.  Thanks drdano