T&D Rockers on Edelbrocks

[FirstEliminator]

   Hey guys,

     I am putting together a 445 stroker for a friend. I am too the point of having the head on the block and getting ready to measure pushrod length.  Today I was reading Barry's FE book and it mentioned about machining required to put T&D rockers on Edelbrock heads. In the T&D instructions it mentioned about stud length over cylinders 3 and 6.  So, I am not really sure what to look for here...Any advice?

   thanks,
    Mark

[sixty9cobra]

Thats where the oil gallery is they require longer studs there.

[FirstEliminator]

    Thanks for the quick reply. When I get into the shop tomorrow I will check that out. Is there any paper I am missing from the T&D rockers?

[Barry_R]

The T&D street rockers require no machining at all.  They are the ones that have the special stud in the oiling location, and use a single long shaft similar to stock FE.

The T&D RACE rockers have paired rockers on four individual short shafts per head - those are the system that requires machining the cylinder head.

[FirstEliminator]

     The studs were in place on the rocker assemblies as they came out of the box and I didn't seperate them for comparison. I dropped the whole rocker assembly on with the studs still in place and threaded in the studs hand tight, they all came down to the same level on top. I'm curious and also don't want to leave anything unchecked, so I will be pulling to studs today to see the difference.  Then the next step is push rods. Do these T&D street rockers get oiling through the lifters and push rods or through the rocker shafts?   
     Sorry if I sound dumb about this. It's been a long while since I've put together an engine other than a stocker.


    thanks,
       Mark

[jayb]

I'm pretty sure that the T&D street rockers oil through the shafts just like a standard FE.  The race rockers require oiling through the pushrods.  You should see a difference in length for the #3 and #6 rocker shaft studs, as compared to the other 6 studs, when you pull them out, but when they are tightened in place all the studs will appear to be the same height over the rocker shaft stands.  The holes for the #3 and #6 studs are deeper.  It sounds to me like your setup is going together just fine...

[fe66comet]

The race versions are quite a bit different all around, the street versions are a bolt on affair.  T&D has a tech line and are very helpful in any questions you might run into from purchase to installation.

[FirstEliminator]

    Thanks guys, I appreciate all the help.


    Mark

[FirstEliminator]

    I had called Barry at Survival today and we talked for a bit about the push rods. I believe Barry had mentioned as a generalization he finds the push rods to end up between 8.350 and 8.400. So, I made a pushrod length tool today and checked the 445 I am putting together. The measurement had come out to 8.592.  This is with the adjuster on the T&D rocker arm backed up all the way to compensate for "1 turn in" for hydraulic lifter preload.  The lifter is on the base circle of the cam. It was measured with a Starrett 12" dial caliper. The measurement is taken from ball end to ball end.

    Should I be using the overall length measurement for pushrods? Or, should I deduct some portion of the ball end? Something isn't right, or I wrote down Barry's measurement wrong.

    thanks,
     Mark

[jayb]

So, the T&D rockers use ball-ball pushrods?  Stock adjustable rocker FE pushrods use a ball on the lifter end and a cup on the rocker arm end.  If you need a ball on the rocker arm end for the T&Ds, then the measurement that Barry gave you may be off.  How are you measuring?  I assume you have an adjustable length pushrod and are adjusting that to fit, and then measuring it?  Its sounds like you are measuring correctly, although I think I would not back the adjuster  up all the way like you did; I'd probably bring it down a turn at least.

For either ball-ball or ball-cup pushrods, overall length is what you need to specify.

[FirstEliminator]

   Hey Jay,

   Yes, ball-ball with the T&D.  Talking to Barry today, he mentioned the method that he liked to use is to back up the adjuster and take the measurement. He said T&D likes to have their adjuster about in the middle and only turned + or - one turn. Which seems to be what I recall reading in their instructions. Barry recommended one turn preload on the hydraulic lifter. So, the one turn preload will put the rocker adjuster in the optimal position.
    Today I took an old FT pushrod which was ball-ball cut about 2 inches out of the middle. Then threaded the ends about 1 1/2 inches on both ends.  On the lathe, I turned down a piece of 3/4" to about 1/2", then drilled and tapped the tube. It came out o-k.
     The cam is on the base circle and the rocker shaft was tightened down. I put the adjustable pushrod in and lengthened it until there was zero lash. I would then remove the rocker assembly and remove the adjustable pushrod without disturbing it's adjustment. Measured it with the dial caliper and twice came up with 8.592". I think this is the first time I have ever measured for custom length pushrods which is why I am not totally confident in the measurement, even though the proceedure is strait forward. I guess I am not confident because my measurement differs from the recomendation from a reputable source.

    The adjustable pushrod tool was the first project on a "new to me" lathe: 1940 Pratt & Whitney model B 12x30.

[jayb]

Sounds to me like you are doing everything right, Mark.  I'd go with that measurement.

[FirstEliminator]

    Hey Jay, thanks for the boost in confidence.  I'll measure again tomorrow to make sure I don't come up with something different in the course of 13 hours. Then place my order for push rods and get another step closer with the 445 for the 66 Cyclone project. 

     Before anyone asks-------yes, I am a machine fanatic too. Mostly New England built machines, but love all old American Iron.
 
           

[sixty9cobra]

just make sure you let the rocker go through its movement on the valve tip. It should stay in the middle of the stem or close to it.

[afret]

The pushrod length depends on a bunch of factors that tend to make it a bit different for each engine such as how much the heads were milled, head gasket thickness, valve job.........

Also if you have the time, you can measure for all 16.