Engine Bay Questions - Wiring, Motor Mounts

[CV355]

We are uncovering some weird findings while tearing the engine bay down to prep and paint.  When we removed the motor mounts, I saw that the lower shackles were drilled out, which did not make sense to me- any reason why this might have been done this way?  I am looking at replacing these with Total Control urethane motor mounts.

Also, I had (foolishly) paid a local shop to do some work on this car two years ago and it was a total disaster.  Since I am going to have to redo all of the wiring anyways, I figure this gives me a chance to do a very clean job of it.  Any recommendations on routing so this massive trunk isn't flopped over the strut tower?  Also, what brand pigtail connectors do you guys generally like to use? 

[jayb]

On the mounts, those brackets for FE engine mounts are different than the small block Ford versions.  Those look like a set of small block brackets modified to make the FE mounts fit.

That wire loom is in the position where Ford put it, but you can route it outside the engine bay and around to where it needs to go if you don't mind cutting some holes in the engine compartment.  However, outside the engine compartment the wiring will be exposed to road debris and weather, so make sure if you do that you protect the wiring accordingly.

[CV355]

On the mounts, those brackets for FE engine mounts are different than the small block Ford versions.  Those look like a set of small block brackets modified to make the FE mounts fit.

That wire loom is in the position where Ford put it, but you can route it outside the engine bay and around to where it needs to go if you don't mind cutting some holes in the engine compartment.  However, outside the engine compartment the wiring will be exposed to road debris and weather, so make sure if you do that you protect the wiring accordingly.

I hadn't thought of that- any idea why the previous owner might have used a small block bracket?  I couldn't tell if it lowered the engine in the bay at all, but now that I think about it, there are signs that it may have been the case. 

Regarding the wire loom, I may leave the main trunk where it is and try to hide everything else, just a cleaner job of it than what is currently there.  In my job, I've spent countless hours designing systems with wire management so you don't see anything but the last bit of a pigtail running to a QD.  I figure that same obsessiveness carries over to the automotive hobby as well.

Thanks for the advice as always, Jay!

[GerryP]

The wiring run may not be television show-car, but it is tidy and shows your attention to detail.  I prefer the mechanical look of things.  No need to hide anything.

[thatdarncat]

What vehicle is this and model year?

[CV355]

What vehicle is this and model year?

'69 Mach 1, 428CJ, Q-Code.

I'm discovering all of the issues caused by a local shop, on top of the 51 year history of the car.  Fun process.  If I wrapped $100 around every bolt I've removed, I might be close to what this is going to cost me.  Granted, I'm notoriously obsessive.  This whole mess started with an oil leak at a valve cover.  The more I dug in, the more problems I found.  Thankfully the previous owner did an outstanding job on the chassis restoration, so the car has a 10/10 foundation (minus the holes the rabid woodchucks at the local shop put in everywhere that I have to weld up and grind down) 

[thatdarncat]

In the 1967 model year the Mustang/Cougar used the same frame engine mount for both the small block 289 and the FE 390/428. Starting in the ‘68 model year, through ‘70, Ford made a change to the small block engine frame mount bolt holes, which tips the mount different. This causes issues for the small block guys too, who don’t realize ‘67 is different than ‘68-‘70. The solution for people who want to swap a FE into a small block ‘68-‘70 car is re-drill the holes, or use the 1967 frame mounts. There’s some good info on the West Coast Classic Cougar website:

https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/d0zz-6029-d.html

Here’s a couple pictures from their site illustrating the difference.

[CV355]

In the 1967 model year the Mustang/Cougar used the same frame engine mount for both the small block 289 and the FE 390/428. Starting in the ‘68 model year, through ‘70, Ford made a change to the small block engine frame mount bolt holes, which tips the mount different. This causes issues for the small block guys too, who don’t realize ‘67 is different than ‘68-‘70. The solution for people who want to swap a FE into a small block ‘68-‘70 car is re-drill the holes, or use the 1967 frame mounts. There’s some good info on the West Coast Classic Cougar website:

https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/d0zz-6029-d.html

Here’s a couple pictures from their site illustrating the difference.

Very interesting...  But, now there's an added level of confusion for me.  If my '69 was originally a 428 car, which the Marti report states, then why would someone have needed to drill the mounts if it never had a small block in it?  Or is it more likely that they just nabbed a spare set of mounts, realized they were incorrect and modified to fit?

I'm trying to avoid another "rabbit hole" situation with problems. 

[thatdarncat]

I don’t know the answer to why on your car, but maybe with those measurements on the illustrations you can figure out which you have. You are correct that if yours were original they shouldn’t have needed to be modified. The ‘67-‘70 FE Mustang/Cougar use a three piece mount system on each side - the frame mounts, a rubber mount in the middle, and a steel plate that attaches to the FE engine block. Do you have the correct rubber mount & engine plates? Did the shop re-drill the holes in your body where the frame mounts attach?

[CV355]

I don’t know the answer to why on your car, but maybe with those measurements on the illustrations you can figure out which you have. You are correct that if yours were original they shouldn’t have needed to be modified. The ‘67-‘70 FE Mustang/Cougar use a three piece mount system on each side - the frame mounts, a rubber mount in the middle, and a steel plate that attaches to the FE engine block. Do you have the correct rubber mount & engine plates? Did the shop re-drill the holes in your body where the frame mounts attach?

I didn't see any re-drilled holes in the body where the frame mounts attach.  I'll do some measuring tonight and try to decipher what is actually going on in there.  At first glance it looked like a shadetree engine drop attempt, but the geometry isn't adding up right as it would swing the center bolt axis away from the engine. 

3 piece is correct, what's what I have.  I just want to make sure that if I buy new TCP urethane mounts, they'll actually bolt up and I won't have a problem.

As much as I want to, I can't blame this on on the local shop.  Their screwups were in the steering, wiring, and exhaust mainly. 

Also, thank you for the info- that is very helpful

[fe468stroker]

When I frenched the shock towers on my '68 I noticed that there was a fair amount of room between the spring and the inner shock tower.  What an ideal place to run the wiring I thought after a few 12oz lifts.  So I took a length of 3/4" PVC and drilled the shock tower about three inches above the frame rail on both sides and slid the PVC through the holes.  Secured it with a 3/4" PVC coupler sawed in half and glued the halves on both sides of the shock tower to keep it in place.  Had enough room to run all the wires and the sensor for the water temperature through the PVC.  Before running the wiring, I painted the exposed PVC black the match the engine bay paint.  You have to look close to see what was done.  Granted it is a lot easier to do this with the FE removed.  I have never seen another shock tower car done this way but now my secret is out.

[gregb]

Since they drilled the hole at the edge and not toward middle, they may have had the brackets that bolt to the engine upside down and/or on the wrong sides......
As to the wiring it normally runs along the side of the shock tower, right where it interferes with getting to the plugs.  I routed mine up and over like that too, I just used the old school woven style loom so it's not as noticeable as the modern version they used on yours.  I have seen people drill the fenderwell at back and run them along the outside of the well so it's hidden, but that takes some work. 

[TomP]

I didn't know 67 mount brackets were different than 68's. I've seen 289 brackets used on 390's and assumed all the 67 to 70's were like that.

Little known fact, you can put an FE into a Fairlane using the 289 Fairlane frame stands and the 390 Mustang engine bracket and rubber. I worked on one that a guy did like that. Engine seemed to be located normally

That plastic tubing makes the wiring bulkier than it needs to be. There are only a half dozen wires and taped up it's just a 3/8" diameter strand. I've run them through the fenderwell too. Even redrilled the square plug hole in the firewall to move that outboard. Also ran the alternator, gauge and coil wiring down along the pan rail so nothing cluttered the top of the engine.

[CV355]

All good info, guys!

While pulling the brake MC/booster off this weekend, I had a chance to plan out wiring.  I think I am going to fabricate conduit in the driver side wheel well to loop the wiring down, protected, and hidden. 

Since I get to create a wiring harness from scratch anyway, I'll put a QD with a few spare terminals before the grommets so I can disconnect if need be and simply run it back through with fish tape.

[Falcon67]

I've had a feed like shown in your second pic (post #1) running under the fender for, um, 30 years or so.  It's in split loom and has held up without issue over that time.  I also don't use the bump stop/shields on the car either.  Took them off for suspension work and never put them back.  No issues even with wheels up launches. 

[CV355]

I've had a feed like shown in your second pic (post #1) running under the fender for, um, 30 years or so.  It's in split loom and has held up without issue over that time.  I also don't use the bump stop/shields on the car either.  Took them off for suspension work and never put them back.  No issues even with wheels up launches.

I'm definitely going to do it that way.  This weekend we're going to weld up all of the holes in the engine bay panels, then I might borrow a buddy's Greenlee hydraulic punch so I can get a perfect oval for access on both sides, grommet it, and add a QD.