FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: 482supersnake on November 15, 2023, 11:50:09 PM
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https://youtu.be/g2j-twLVt3g?si=7Tn6-hFsGc41eOB-
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I watched the video and all I could wonder is if the engine was being built for Dan's Galaxie project??
https://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=8274.0
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There may be a relationship, but Dan was working on a billet block N/A build, and the Steve Morris build is a cast block and was destined to be supercharged.
I am no SOHC expert, but it appears to me that the cams in Steves build are incorrect, and I suspect his solution is going to be problematic.
BTW, Steve is one of the only guys I "follow" and I look forward to his YouTube releases. He is open and informative, and a really good guy. I have met and talked with him a number of times and he never speaks badly of others and importantly (to me) isn't prone to keeping secrets.
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................ I suspect his solution is going to be problematic.
+1 :o
Scott.
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I watched it last night. I also was questioning the wisdom of those big cam rollers. Looks like a lot of added mass, perhaps with it being supercharged they won't be wringing all the rpms out of it, but I would assume that extra mass will become hard to control at some point lower in the rpm curve. I also wonder what the effect is on the actual valve timing. Pretty big geometry change, I would think it would have some effect on the valve timing sequence.
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................ I suspect his solution is going to be problematic.
Add me to the list of seeing "problematic"......................
+1 :o
Scott.
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Not only the added mass of the wheel (made of steel? :-\) to be considered in the travel motion and inertia effects of the rocker, but also the flywheel effect on accelerations and decelerations of the larger wheel, and then the "foot-print" change in the relationship to the camshaft lobe so what was the effect in the cam-timing values, and then I think he has drawn the wrong conclusion in the functional relationship of the valve stem centerline to the "wobble" adapter angle on the adjusting stud, etc., etc...............
Scott.
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I couldn't even watch the video all the way through, Morris is screwing the engine up so badly. The big roller wheels will totally screw the valvetrain geometry, the heads should fit the cams and not need to be clearanced for the cams or the rockers, etc. etc. etc. He also is apparently unaware of the Bach and Gould dragster with a 3000 HP cammer, or Kurt Neighbors SOHC funny car, which is probably at least 2000 HP. I've built over a dozen SOHCs and I've never encountered any of the problems that he claims to be having. Cammers are not that easy to put together, but you would expect a professional engine builder to be able to do it. Apparently not Morris...
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+1 on what Jay said. Those big rollers are not the way to go. For a high HP build that will see any real sustained rpm, those adjustable rockers need to be gone as well. Race cammers used non-adjustable rockers for a reason.
Steve must have gotten some cams made off of incorrect blanks. And yeah, he's not going to make the kind of HP that even the Top Fuel SOHC's made back in the day.
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Glad to see you Jay chime in. Seems like folks like to 'fix' SOHC issues that really don't exist.
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I posted a comment on the YouTube channel. He seems like he is kinda lost on that one.
The big rollers are just wrong as a solution to the problem he is having.
I have built several SOHC engines - not nearly as many as Neighbor or others - and have never had that issue.
I also suspect that the cams and/or valves are seriously incorrect.
I do think that the elephant's foot adjusters are stupid, and eliminate them by having T&D make rockers with a roller at each end, and adjust the valve lash with selective lash caps.
Bill C has tested and proven that combination of parts a long time ago. On an SOHC you can set cold lash on the workbench before assembling the engine.
I degree the cams like two four cylinders - "leading" cam first - second cam after.
Seems to work for me and addresses any cam to cam chain deflection/stretch - at least cold.
Jay has tested variance in timing as a tuning tool, but I feel you should start at the card specified event numbers and tune from there.
I also toss the front cover snap ring concoction and fabricate a "normal" thrust plate for the stub shaft.
Why on earth would you want a non-confirmable, gasket mounted item pulling on a critical fore and aft alignment assembly.
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I've enjoyed Steve's channel and his drag and drive engines sure are impressive. However, there was an episode seven or eight months back where he introduced a bunch of new projects, including an Audi V10 and the cammer. As soon as I saw the block sitting there and the word "cammer" came out of his mouth, my first thought was "this isn't going to end well" lol. I also remember thinking that he is either one of the most well-versed engine builders on the planet, or that he had no freakin' idea what he was getting into. Survey says...?
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I feel sorry for Steve and the owner
Sure would be nice if there was a book or something using all the expertise from people like ed pink and many others on building sohc engines before all that is lost forever when they sadly pass.
I would like to convert my engine to a sohc but who can you even ask to take the time to get a list of what to buy and then you may wait years to get parts.
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It just goes to show you, that although u-tube videos, decals with one's name plastered about, magazine participation and other promotional efforts, might bring you the business, but it just doesn't guarantee success in the execution of the endeavor! ::)
Scott.
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I looked more closely at the video. It's pretty clear that the cams are wrong. The base circle is way too small:
(https://i.ibb.co/0fMr9PL/Cams-1.png)
For reference, here's what actual SOHC cams should look like:
(https://i.ibb.co/cXJ6zxH/Cams-2.png)
That also explains why the heads had to be clearanced for the cams. Given this starting point, I would bet that both cams have the same profile grind, as opposed to the correct "backwards" grind on the (edited) driver's side.
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Looking at the pictures I think the cams are OK. Notice the one cam has the lobes almost 180 degrees apart, and the other has them close together. That is what SOHC cams look like. His problem is the length of the valves, and what he perceives the problem is with the elephant foot adjuster scrubbing over the top of the valve. He claims this is going to break parts. It's not, at least in a drag application. I've run those adjusters to 7800 many, many times. The problem comes with sustained high RPM over 10-15 seconds, as Bill's videos show. On the dyno, or at the drag strip, the elephant foot adjusters are not an issue.
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Steve gave me my parachute thats on my car,he is a good guy and is good at what he specializes in,BUT,thats proof that when it comes to building a good fe engine,you need to have a fe guy building it and doing the machine work.
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Is a shame and the video is hard to watch. Looks like from what he says in the video he was handed all these parts and tried to make it work based on what he knows. SOHC stuff is not anything close to what he normally does and he would have been better off not taking the job, but I for whatever reason he did. I'd give him a A for effort, but he went down a Rabbit hole. Certainly did not do himself or the customer any favors. Hopefully the owner gets it sorted out by someone who knows how to make a 427 SOHC work. Sometimes you are best to stick with what you know and do best.
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It’s a shame he didn’t get to finish it and see if what he did works. Now someone else has to go through it and figure out what he was trying to do. It’s going to cost the owner a lot more to have someone else take this to a conclusion. Also now Steve Morris has been released from any workmanship guarantee issues.
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It was like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Jay, since you didn't /couldn't watch to the end, he got fired before he was done and the customer took the cammer back. It's a sad thing when that happens, but at least he owned up to it, admitted he was to blame. Not too many would do that.