FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Non-FE Discussion Forum => Topic started by: fryedaddy on March 11, 2024, 01:00:48 PM
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i just put a full spool in my 9 inch rear.it binds and pops a little when you turn sharp.is this normal or do i need some better universals or something?
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That sounds about what they do.
Get the best u joint straps you can.
I busted the straps a number of years ago daily driving a spool.
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i just put a full spool in my 9 inch rear.it binds and pops a little when you turn sharp.is this normal or do i need some better universals or something?
Put skinny tires with lots of air pressure on the rears and it will turn easier, put large drag slicks on and it will feel like you stabbed the brakes during a turn. Lol Be careful on wet surfaces!
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i just put a full spool in my 9 inch rear.it binds and pops a little when you turn sharp.is this normal or do i need some better universals or something?
Most often with the wheels locked together, as they are with an unforgiving spool (but often also experienced with the application of a Detroit-Locker), when turning the vehicle left or right the axle housing experiences a sum of twist or rap-up due to the tires traction fighting one another in the different pathways resulting (twisting in which ever direction the tire with the most traction imparts to the housing) until the spring resistance overpowers the tire traction and then the torque load is released with a snap and often a slap of the spring leaves (or other suspension components or even body work being distorted) which is often the noise one hears. :o
It's just the nature of the beast! ::)
Scott.
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so it is normal to hear some noise while turning sharp? when going straight it seems to ride better and stays very straight when you go faster.
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Invest in the best 1350 joints and billet caps that you can get. With a spool, especially on the street, the stresses placed on those pieces, as well as axles and wheel studs, cannot be overstated.
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A spool if great at the dragstrip, but no way would I ever want one on a street car. I have 3 9" 3rd members for my 59, the "normal" one is a N case with 3.50 gears and a 31 spline Detroit Locker, the dragstrip one is a 4.33 spool, and even driving the 1/2 hour to my local dragstrip, with the spool, I hate it when I have to go around a corner. Great way to find any weak links in your rearend, however! Also good for attracting cops and attention, when the tires are chirping and dragging around corners or in a parking lot.
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so it is normal to hear some noise while turning sharp? when going straight it seems to ride better and stays very straight when you go faster.
Yes, as others here noted, it is normal. Long ago (!) we had to jimmy our '69 all drag racer off trailer and make a 90 degree turn into the garage we rented. This in a narrow Chicago alley. Yikes, if we got back from the races late (engine noise) or the car broke, we had to push that 3,200 lb. car into that tight turn. Took a real effort too. Had we swapped out the 11.5" wide slicks to a really narrow street tire, it would have been a lot easier.
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In order to "get a long" with a locked rear, it will be concluded that if one "drives" (vs. coasting) through the turn that this reduces things becoming in such a bind and as upset, as the tire tread will be forced to surrender (tread walk) to the torque being applied from the engine. ;)
And in the attempt to push one's drag car, with a locked rear and the big soft pavement grabbing slicks, around a sharp corner, push until you just can't make it move any farther, block the inside of the turn front wheel, then roll the floor jack under the rear and lift the rear which will then unload the windup, set it down and you'll find that you can push it forward, some more, though you may have to repeat this before you have reached your destination. And if on an improved surface (concrete, asphalt, etc.) while you have the rear end off the ground, swing it out around the corner pointing the noise of the car in the direction you intend to travel this lessening the sum of turning required in the distance of the pushing exercise. :)
Scott.
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thank you Scott and everyone else for the info.it makes it easier for me to adjust.
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Same - 9" with spool, all the above. Tires chip on corners on the street, "scrunch" around at the track on what are usually not wonderfully paved surfaces at most tracks. Drive on wet road at your own risk. If it's a street/strip type car, much better off with a DL as it will unlock for corners and be a bit more forgiving. Not much, but some. Both require respect and restraint on the street. The two main things with a DL is on the strip, make sure you have enough room to pull straight forward after a burnout to be sure the DL is locked. And on the street, never "punch it" going around a corner. It will not do a cute tail wag - the DL will lock and send the nose heading in whatever direction it happens to be pointing. Don't ask me how I know these things ;D ;D ;D
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if you are going to street drive mostley,i would run the true trac geared posi.they are pretty strong and work like a spool in a straight line,and allow easy turns.not cheap though!
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Invest in the best 1350 joints and billet caps that you can get. With a spool, especially on the street, the stresses placed on those pieces, as well as axles and wheel studs, cannot be overstated.
Take CJ's and hbstangs advice you can really brake stuff with a spool on the street. Braking an axle in a 66/67 fairlane would not be good I run a true trac gives great driving and they are silent no banging when turning tight like a detroit lockers do. Just don't buy a cheap ebay copy spend the money and get a real eaton true track.
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Do note that the "Tru-Trac" and the other worm-geared type units are a friction resistance reaction type, and therefore do not provide assurance that even in strait forward tire spinning instances that both wheels are actually turning at the same speed. ;)
Scott.
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freydaddy, just another chiming in with some helpful advice.
A full spool changes things drastically because you now have a single purpose tool in the rear end rather than a multi-tasking differential.
Do a bit of research online concerning the geometry at work when you have two different lines being traversed while connected.
The easy description: When turning, the inside tire travels less distance than the outside tire.
This means the two tires, connected via the spool, must figure out a way to travel different distances, at different speeds, while being radially connected by the axel shaft.....something MUST give.
What gives, hopefully, is the tires traction ability....meaning the tires must skid in some manner.
The inside tire scuffs around the smaller circumference while the outer tire skids and tries to keep up with the radius turning speed of the inside tire.
ALL of this causes every portion of the suspension and rear driveline to bind as it works to overcome the traction limits of the tires as they skid.
From the driver seat you WILL feel, and hear, many things you have not yet experienced.
Be specially aware of on and off throttle chassis/steering inputs as you go around cloverleafs at speed.
It will basically feel like your car is being shoved by the hand of god as it shifts during the turn....often in an unsettling manner because the car tries to either go straight, or the unloading and loading of the suspension "grabs" and then slips, and then "grabs" again, over and over until the curve is complete.
EVERY portion of this is elevated if the road surface has any type of traction limiters, (rain, sand, snow, dirt, leaves, mayflies, etc)
If you have a BIG parking lot available I strongly suggest you drive around that empty lot fiddling with turning radiuses, throttle inputs, braking inputs, and other things just to get used to driving with a spool and sticky tires.
Once you have a full understanding about what is going on and what is normal then you can drive around with knowledge and confidence.......But don't think for a second you can toss the keys to another driver and hope they do okay.
A spool is a dedicated tool that can not be duplicated any other way....but like most dedicated tools, they have their limitations and place.
I don't think the street is a good place for a spool equipped driver style car.
If you are taking a dedicated drag car to a special show once or twice per year then it is okay.
But if this is your "daily" cruiser a spool gives rise to many plausible troubles that other differential options cover in a far better manner.
A Detroit Locker is one better example.
They come with their own set of "instructions" but they are MUCH better on the street than a full spool.
Anyway, know what you installed and understand the "contract" you signed when installing the spool in your street driven toy.
Big power, skinny front tires, wrinkle wall slicks and a spool make for some exciting driving......just hope and prey it does not rain....ANYWHERE you will be driving that particular night of street racing, otherwise you may find yourself driving home at a comically slow speed just so you don't crash while driving straight down the highway....The on ramps are really fun.
I, ummm, read about this in a magazine once....Yeah, that's the ticket, in a magazine.
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great advice.i drive my 73 f250 as my daily,im retired so i dont drive every day. when i get my comet out its either going for a short drive or to a show or meeting and every now and then street race. been a while since i been to the track but i plan on going a time or two this year.but anyway i watch what im doing when street driving.i found out real quick why it is so important to line your car up straight at the starting line.i punched it for just a second or two with my grandson with me and i was headed for the ditch if i had not let off.it was a safe area but nobody wants to run off the road.
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Now this is going to create some confusion, that because although the statements of concern with the use of a locked rear on ones' "street driver" are absolutely correct, but the experienced as perceived difficulties have a lot to do with the adaptability of the driver to these new and different characteristics. For example, I had an F350 4 X 4 that I took off-road on the weekends and participated quite aggressively in competition and/or just for fun and I came to realize it was important to have all four wheels participating at all times no matter what the relationships the tires might experience with the topography and with this understanding the choices then were clear, I needed "Detroit Locker"s (front & rear, but these were rather expensive :(), or the other more cost effective option was the "Lincoln-Locker" approach! :-\
After the conversion to the locked rear (yep, "Lincoln-Lockers" front & rear ::)), on the street (as this was also my daily driver), I experienced little difficulty, as a matter of fact since I was nearly always clowning around, drifting (ya, before it became a sport ::)), 180's & 360 degree spins (yep, in a one-ton four wheel drive; and it sure does use up a lot of real estate in doing so! :o), I found that the chassis was more consistent it it's movements and I had better control in practicing these antics. ;)
So my point is, yes it's going to require greater diligence in operation with the locked rear, but depending on the operator and the environment it might not be all bad! 8)
Well,............. except the tire wear situation! ::)
Scott.
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i have owned this car 41 years and several engines,trans,rearend gears have been put in it,but in all those years and combos i have NEVER done a dougnut or anything silly in it. i guess thats why i still have it after 41 years. but im no stranger to horsepower or racing.my grandson asked one of my buddies how far i could ride a wheelie on a motorcycle.my buddy answered-how ever long the road was.
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When the driveshaft let go I was going around a bend at about 50 mph.
The driveshaft let go at the straps.
The driveshaft was destroyed as was the yoke and a muffler.
A pretty good dent in the tunnel as well.
It cost way more than the cheap spool. Save up for the locker.
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Since this post has gone on for a while I'll add my 2 cents.
I bought from Roush Racing 3 NASCAR Detroit Lockers. They are the nastiest, clickity-clack churping tires lock/unlock at weird times...but tough as nails.
I put one in my Mustang with 19.5X33 tires and a 427 stroker. It worked fine and the car had enough "quirks" that you could hardly tell it was back there.
Installed another in my '87 Jeep Wrangler when I put a 9" in it. That's a whole 'nuther story. It sounds like the stage coach was coming to town around every turn unless it doesn't unlock then it just churps tires. I learned early on that when coming into a long sweeping turn on the road either start coasting before the turn or stay on the throttle through the turn. if one changes his mind mid turn, off then on the gas, a lane change may happen. However cranky it may be, still tough as nails and has seen many years of rock bashing.
I had a pumpkin put together for my Mustang that had a spool with 4.88 gears. I took it to the track and it worked fine. Too lazy to pull it back out I started to drive it around to car shows and such. What I found was that it was much more predictable than the Detroit and drove fine.
I finally pulled it out for 2 reasons. You cannot push a car with a spool by human power if there is even the slightest turn. Secondly, when pulling out of a parking space at a car show it sounds like you're beating a dog to death with all the skreeching and yelping going on.
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Well said, Tommy :)
KS
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thanks everybody, i think that covers just about everything i need to know
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I have one question a few people mentioned U joints failing with a spool why is that ? I ask because I have a spool do little street driving but seem to kill the 2 caps under the straps, all the rest are fine
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Generally when utilizing a spool the average load on the driveline will be greater this obviously resulting in greater wear rates. But often the greater problem is that once the tires are locked together in equal rotation they impart a greater tendency for wheel-hop and this is a far greater threat to the survival of the u-joints, or anything else in the driveline and chassis.
As far as the greater wear being exhibited by the bearings and trunnions retained by the u-bolts or straps, this is most likely due to the distortion of the cap upon their tightening, particularly if over tightened. :)
Scott.
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I have one question a few people mentioned U joints failing with a spool why is that ? I ask because I have a spool do little street driving but seem to kill the 2 caps under the straps, all the rest are fine
To be honest, I bought the u-joint straps off the Help Rack at the parts store. ::)
I use Strange Heavy Duty U-Joint Girdles now.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/str-u1610hd
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I use Strange Heavy Duty U-Joint Girdles now.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/str-u1610hd
This is some of the stuff that just makes me wonder, W.T.F.! ::)
Let's say I'm the manufacturer of this product, and I need a part number to identify it, why would one select the number "U1610HD"? I suppose the "U" indicates that it might be a "U-Joint" and the "HD" implies perhaps that it might qualify as being special "Heavy-Duty", O.K.. But why the "1610"? You know that there is such a thing as a "1610" type U-Joint, maybe not so commonly used in the light automotive applications, rather larger commercial trucks and heavy equipment, but why not utilize the "1350" nomenclature which would aid in identifying the intended application and just reduce the confusion? :-\
Oh, and no, this won't fit a "1610" joint ("1350": 1.188" & "1610": 1.875" cap dia.). :o
Scott.
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Have spent 20 years in mfg and inventory control, you don't necessarily want, care about or need part numbers that carry much intelligence. Possibly U for the u-joint related parts line, 1610 is a sequential number in the line of parts, HD for heavy duty - like B for Black, L for left, etc. Worked with thousands of parts and knew most of them, but if I said 25920L-60 it would only mean something to me LOL and not anyone else. The -60 being the 60hz USA part as opposed to -50 for Canada and Europe. From my stent in auto parts, the main part I'm thinking of that uses the number to carry intelligence is fan belts.