Broader C6 Oil Mods?

[Jackal]

Using galaxiex's chart, I took the servo and lever specs and worked out some values for various combos by multiplying the servo apply value by the lever ratio. Not sure how accurately this reflects anything however: (servo / lever)

G / E: 3.77
D / E: 3.85
H / E: 4.33
R / E: 4.59

G / F: 4.69
D / F: 4.78
H / F: 5.38
R / F: 5.70

Looks like an H / F combo would be quite a bit more aggressive than the typical R / E, and nearing the known limits of the R / F combo, so I think I'd either want to stick with G / F, or go with H / E? I have no idea how these parts work together to be able to know which combo would be more desirable. It's nice to have options though!

[galaxiex]

Using galaxiex's chart, I took the servo and lever specs and worked out some values for various combos by multiplying the servo apply value by the lever ratio. Not sure how accurately this reflects anything however: (servo / lever)

G / E: 3.75
H / E: 4.33
R / E: 4.59
G / F: 4.70
D / F: 4.78
P / F: 4.83
H / H: 5.10
H / F: 5.38
R / F: 5.70

Looks like an H / F combo would be quite a bit more aggressive than the typical R / E, and nearing the known limits of the R / F combo, so I think I'd either want to stick with G / F, or go with H / E? I have no idea how these parts work together to be able to know which combo would be more desirable. It's nice to have options though!

I think you're on the right track.

I have not messed around with different servo and lever combos to know what works and what is on the edge.

I do know that the more aggressive levers like the H, F and FF apply more force, but are  slower to "get there" due to the low ratio.
We are talking fractions of a second of course, but that can be an eternity inside the trans, in relation to what else is happening.

The 2 - 3 shift has always been kinda "tricky" since one friction element has to release (the band) as the next one (the high clutch) applies.

Get the ratios and apply/release timing wrong and you get a bind or a flare on the shift.
Band adjustment comes into play here too, tho to a lesser extent.

The G/F or the H/E look good to me too.

I have the R/E in mine, but have not driven it yet.

[Jackal]

I just picked up a D servo to allow more options. Emailed another guy to who might have some insight. Appreciate ya!

[Jackal]

Welp my parts are all here except for the E lever I just ordered. Think I will go H / E. There are so few parts here, I'm thinking twice about having it built now, but it's probably best since it will sit for a few years before install. I think I will run ATI Super F vs. Redline's synthetic F type, if anyone has thoughts on that. Will run the cork pan gasket and the Raybestos Pro Series kevlar intermediate band even though it appears as flimsy as can be. I'm confirming on whether or not I need to remove the fluid dams on it since it looks like it wasn't done as per instructions.

I suppose I will run the stage 4 VB calibration though there is no turning back with the servo modulator valve bypass. I don't think I've ever been behind a C6 I'm embarrassed to admit. I'm not sure if I want to just raise the manual shift points "shift command" safety feature with the new spring, or completely eliminate it with the spring and hex nut if anyone wants to weigh in on this.

I can't think ya'll enough for helping me out with this project. You wouldn't believe how frustrating the whole process has been since I was completely clueless about C6's and didn't even know what to try to find for a donor, let alone all these other details with an early case and all. Hopefully it will be that much more rewarding when bolted up to a fresh rebuild.

For now, the plan is to only eliminate the check ball in the secondary valve piston in the governor should I find one there. I can't really find much more info than that, and even that seems sketchy.

It isn't much, but I'd like to offer up my Broader F lever now, and maybe eventually my other servos if any of you would be interested.

[Jackal]

Sorry to keep kicking this back to the top, almost across the finish line.

Since I have an early 4 clutch forward drum, and my builder doesn't want to do any machining, it seems as though my only option is to purchase a 5 clutch forward drum? Does this swap change anything else critical in my Broader kit or just a typical tolerance check / adjustment? Anyone have a good source for the drum? Additionally, I think he specs the cheaper, non-performance frictions for the forward drum, so I'd either need to score a single steel/friction or switch the whole pack out for another set of reds? He doesn't seem to have these items in stock and recommends I just stick with 4 clutchs in this drum. Thoughts?

[galaxiex]

Careful… early and late fwd drums are different.
The step/pocket where the thrust bearing goes is different depth.
Corresponding difference in the fwd ring gear hub.

[Jackal]

Of course, lots of gotchas in these C6's. 

I'll probably have to stick with the 4-disc drum and I suppose swap out these non-HIPO frictions then.

...or maybe it's worth trying to find a machine shop to handle it for me? Seen mixed thoughts on the larger groove being an issue.

[Jackal]

Im just assuming its a 4-disc since its from 1967 and behind a 390-2v, but maybe Ill luck out?

[galaxiex]

Lotsa gotchas on most any trans from year to year.

Ya, likely a 4 plate drum but could be a 3 plate.

[galaxiex]

Late 5 plate will fit but need the corresponding ring gear hub.

[Jackal]

Thx for the info as per usual, my builder said he can spec one so guess well see whats inside and how much for a larger drum with this ring gear hub.

My D servo showed uo today and made me realize my H servos are for a C4, so Im back to D / F combo and returning this E lever. I'm so over it...haha. Fail.

[galaxiex]

Late drum is better. Ford updated it for a reason....

One more gotcha, The late drum fwd piston outer seal also changed.
It became a lip seal as opposed to the early drum/piston lathe cut seal.

All that means is you need a late type overhaul kit, but all is not lost.
Many O/H kits now cover all years (except 1966 V/B gasket) and have both early and late piston seals in them.

Check the year coverage of your kit, it might have the late lip seal already.
The late lip seal for the forward piston is the ONLY lip seal in the kit.
All other piston seals are lathe cut, so if you find a lip seal in your kit, that's the one for the late fwd piston.

Also, Ford added a wavy cushion plate to the late fwd drum.
The early drum does not have that feature.
Don't be tempted to leave the wavy cushion out to get an extra friction in there.
The wavy cushion makes for a smooth forward engagement with no loss of holding power or durability.
Win, win.

[Jackal]

Appreciate that, I'll see what I have and let builder deal if its missing.

Is .020-.030 clearance in the forward drum with or w/o the spring plate?

I picked up the thinner, early Belleville spring. It sounds like I could have gone with the later spring though instead? Worth getting another one? Assume have to make up for this elsewhere in the stack though huh?

[gt350hr]

   I have an NOS Ford Motorsport high drum in the original box. The snap ring groove placement "looks" like a 4 clutch but these were sold as 5 clutch. Is that possible? I compared it to my used "original" CJ  5 clutch drum and saw the difference. I didn't test fit it for 5.
    Randy

[Jackal]

If early spec. and you end up wanting to move it, let me know.