FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: BruceS on November 24, 2018, 03:11:52 PM
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Check out the Cammer-powered '26 T pickup at this year's AutoRama. The owner / builder said he wanted to put Ford's biggest engine in their smallest engine bay! I'd say he's done it. The Cammer is tilted 30 or 40 degrees I don't remember which, with a homemade dry sump system, Autolite inline carbs, and lots of other goodies. Hope y'all enjoy.
Bruce
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4839/45119834785_6036720f16_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bK5WVX)AutoRama_T_1 (https://flic.kr/p/2bK5WVX) by BRUCE SELBY (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150971499@N04/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4856/45119835185_0d525f55e9_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bK5X3R)AutoRama_T_2 (https://flic.kr/p/2bK5X3R) by BRUCE SELBY (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150971499@N04/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4843/45119835625_c7267033ba_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bK5Xbr)AutoRama_T_3 (https://flic.kr/p/2bK5Xbr) by BRUCE SELBY (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150971499@N04/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4893/45119836095_6f5172112a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bK5Xjx)AutoRama_T_4 (https://flic.kr/p/2bK5Xjx) by BRUCE SELBY (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150971499@N04/), on Flickr
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Saw that car in Detroit Autorama early this year. An incredible piece of engineering.
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Oh wow. I saw one picture of it with no caption... I assumed a 4 banger with adapted valve cover.
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Incredible, More like a sculpture than a Car
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In Henry's favorite color too!!!
Nice!
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I would like to see more pics of the front suspension
You have to be short to fit in the cab, a stock model-T
is cramped for me. And i can imagine with firewall set
back like that there is some lack of legroom
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According to the last picture, that engine is rotated a full 45 degrees. The driver's side rocker cover is horizontal. I was wondering how he was getting the oil out of the other head - which is horizontal! Then I saw the dry sump scavenge line going there in the underside shot...
Pretty awesome build. Are those the unobtanium cast exhaust manifolds? That cast oil pan is pretty trick too.
Is it just me, or should that beautiful engine package be clothed with a belly tank racer?? Why waste such engineering to push an upright refrigerator down the road :o :o
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Yes, it appears to have the ultra-rare cast iron SOHC manifolds.
Some years ago on the old Forum, I posted pics of the only manifolds I ever saw at Don Garlit's FL museum on a Cammer on display under glass.
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According to the last picture, that engine is rotated a full 45 degrees. The driver's side rocker cover is horizontal. I was wondering how he was getting the oil out of the other head - which is horizontal! Then I saw the dry sump scavenge line going there in the underside shot...
Pretty awesome build. Are those the unobtanium cast exhaust manifolds? That cast oil pan is pretty trick too.
Is it just me, or should that beautiful engine package be clothed with a belly tank racer?? Why waste such engineering to push an upright refrigerator down the road :o :o
I guess its fast enough to blow that "outhose" to pieces ;D. A belly tank have more chanses to stay together.
I woundered how they got the oil out of inverted aero engines like the Germans used a lot.
Until i saw a V8 from a Storch, The scavenge from the valvecovers was obvius. But from inside the pistons/cylinders? That Storch
engine had a "gutter" at the side of the crankcase with a scavenge line. So i guess the oil was thrown there when the piston changed
direction
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I guess its fast enough to blow that "outhose" to pieces ;D. A belly tank have more chanses to stay together.
I woundered how they got the oil out of inverted aero engines like the Germans used a lot.
Until i saw a V8 from a Storch, The scavenge from the valvecovers was obvius. But from inside the pistons/cylinders? That Storch
engine had a "gutter" at the side of the crankcase with a scavenge line. So i guess the oil was thrown there when the piston changed
direction
Funny, I was just watching a start-up procedure on the Storch. They do have an inverted V8 design, very odd. There was a specific start up procedure to turn the engine 3 full revolutions to make sure there was no hydrolok due to oil in the cylinders. Some of the older english rotary, and even later radial engines had drains built into the heads so that the bottom cylinders could be drained of any excess oil/gas before startup. I watch a lot of older aviation stuff.
As for the cammer T, that just seems like an odd install on the engine. I don't see the purpose of it unless it was all to retain the stock width hood. Still, you're adding future problems to the engine. Doesn't make sense to me. Excessive piston/cylinder wear on the right bank will be an issue. Like a lot of those builds though, function takes a back seat to looks.
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Those aren't factory manifolds, they appear to be custom cast like the ones on the Ardun at the SEMA show.
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It's for shock and awe guys but I think the effort and packaging there is both awesome and impressive! He also effectively lowered the engine in the chassis significantly decreasing the usual bell intrusion to the footboard. I don't see an interior shot but low as it is with the big rake the floor is likely still flat.
That's a show car for you though... the winner is not always the "best" built car there but the one that draws the most attention. Take a look at the 39 Chevy Riddler winner, yes winner from a few years ago in person once.... they were too lazy to fit the waterjet cut left taillight to curve/bodyline of the fender mostly as they designed the piece to fit right side only and the fenders are not symmetrical. Lol Even the side windows that were urethaned in the guy didn't know enough to wet the tip of his finger with body solvent to smooth it out on a $450,000+/- car built to win the show! With tons of other obvious flaws, bad paint, bad fit, and mistakes in the pocket milled emblems I can not believe this car won a large local show let alone the greatest award there is! From ten feet away though the car is low and mean with big ass custom made wheels so people raved over it. Basically "the Scorpion" of the 2000's...
To the same end a shop I worked for entered a 93 Camaro Pro Streeted Promod body build with this hideous rip away flame purple/yellow paint job, a bellybutton dressed/polished blown BBC and a lexan trans tunnel. This was a wild street car taken on whim and the fiberglass was raw under the body. No wrap around graphics or any of the other must haves of the time. Still Lobeck built the same nice but paint by numbers boring 32 he always
did so the ugliest Camaro ever built made great 8, won club choice, and people's choice. That was year Poises Extremeliner took the Don Riddler award but another runner up was nothing more than a monochromatic slammed squarebody GM crewcab dually. Lol Some Fugly stuff back then buddy!
This T on the other hand looks like something from Lil' John Buttera with some modern touchs. Two thumbs way up for whoever built it!
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I disagree Tom. They look factory except the owner had the exteriors ground down (parting lines) and/or heavily sanded to make them look as smooth as possible. They also appear to be coated too. I guess this since every other part on this car is darn near perfect so why leave the as-cast OEM manifolds kinda' crude looking in comparison?
Those aren't factory manifolds, they appear to be custom cast like the ones on the Ardun at the SEMA show.
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I guess its fast enough to blow that "outhose" to pieces ;D. A belly tank have more chanses to stay together.
I woundered how they got the oil out of inverted aero engines like the Germans used a lot.
Until i saw a V8 from a Storch, The scavenge from the valvecovers was obvius. But from inside the pistons/cylinders? That Storch
engine had a "gutter" at the side of the crankcase with a scavenge line. So i guess the oil was thrown there when the piston changed
direction
Funny, I was just watching a start-up procedure on the Storch. They do have an inverted V8 design, very odd. There was a specific start up procedure to turn the engine 3 full revolutions to make sure there was no hydrolok due to oil in the cylinders. Some of the older english rotary, and even later radial engines had drains built into the heads so that the bottom cylinders could be drained of any excess oil/gas before startup. I watch a lot of older aviation stuff.
As for the cammer T, that just seems like an odd install on the engine. I don't see the purpose of it unless it was all to retain the stock width hood. Still, you're adding future problems to the engine. Doesn't make sense to me. Excessive piston/cylinder wear on the right bank will be an issue. Like a lot of those builds though, function takes a back seat to looks.
I think that, probably to keep stock width hood. Wounder how they routed the framerail on the right side? Funktion /look factor is the reason to my more sculpture than car coment. Its not built to drive but more like a pieces of art. Right or wrong i guess is up to the owner to decide
A picture of the only REAL showcar built in Sweden ever. Inpractical borderline unusabel but i love it.I seen it live a couple of times
one time our carclub had a motorshow and we had it there so i could realy study the details the night before. And this one is built i late 70 early 80s
So much of it is handmade with handtool was no fancy CNC mahines then. In my eyes the builder is more artist than many famous artists
(https://i.postimg.cc/0yQGNkpP/22489987-1577105325643037-6108358581461106331-n.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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It's for shock and awe guys but I think the effort and packaging there is both awesome and impressive! He also effectively lowered the engine in the chassis significantly decreasing the usual bell intrusion to the footboard. I don't see an interior shot but low as it is with the big rake the floor is likely still flat.
That's a show car for you though... the winner is not always the "best" built car there but the one that draws the most attention. Take a look at the 39 Chevy Riddler winner, yes winner from a few years ago in person once.... they were too lazy to fit the waterjet cut left taillight to curve/bodyline of the fender mostly as they designed the piece to fit right side only and the fenders are not symmetrical. Lol Even the side windows that were urethaned in the guy didn't know enough to wet the tip of his finger with body solvent to smooth it out on a $450,000+/- car built to win the show! With tons of other obvious flaws, bad paint, bad fit, and mistakes in the pocket milled emblems I can not believe this car won a large local show let alone the greatest award there is! From ten feet away though the car is low and mean with big ass custom made wheels so people raved over it. Basically "the Scorpion" of the 2000's...
To the same end a shop I worked for entered a 93 Camaro Pro Streeted Promod body build with this hideous rip away flame purple/yellow paint job, a bellybutton dressed/polished blown BBC and a lexan trans tunnel. This was a wild street car taken on whim and the fiberglass was raw under the body. No wrap around graphics or any of the other must haves of the time. Still Lobeck built the same nice but paint by numbers boring 32 he always
did so the ugliest Camaro ever built made great 8, won club choice, and people's choice. That was year Poises Extremeliner took the Don Riddler award but another runner up was nothing more than a monochromatic slammed squarebody GM crewcab dually. Lol Some Fugly stuff back then buddy!
This T on the other hand looks like something from Lil' John Buttera with some modern touchs. Two thumbs way up for whoever built it!
I know exactly what you saying, i hate those jobs just for attention, shiny frontside, sloppy workmanship, on the backside there is lolipop sticks and mud holding it together. IFS and IRS that have severe bumpstear built in to them etc
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Why not just cut a block in half, use one head, and have an I-4 Hemi SOHC? Better fit and possibly cooler. Lot of effort, but I just don't like it. Just me.
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Why not just cut a block in half, use one head, and have an I-4 Hemi SOHC? Better fit and possibly cooler. Lot of effort, but I just don't like it. Just me.
Then he could as well use a Mercedes M102 Engine where the head is
a close copy of a S.O.H.C head
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Some cars have a certain look to them that works while they may not be the best build. Others are feats of engineering that as a whole may not. Accomplishing both is more difficult than many realize but then we come to personal taste. I'd be hard pressed not to turn a Sohc T build into a blown Gasser but that's not exactly original or a challenge.
Being able to appreciate a car you may not favor takes a degree of discipline. I look at the time it would take me to hammer out the same pieces to the same level and the buckets of cash to have the large billet pieces made. Look at the "Grandmaster," the car doesn't flow very well at all but it fits together like it's a lazer cut jigsaw puzzle. I don't like it or that cartoon Streetrod style of build but that level of work deserves the recognition it received. Many others I can't say the same for but I try to focus on the effort and skill put in vs what I like. With this T I'm kinda digging the 70's showcar vibe mostly as it's something a little different.
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Factory manifolds don't route the tubes anything like those. Not modified 426 Hemi ones either.
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You're right Tom. I have a set of drawings of the SOHC manifolds and they are indeed different. Somebody spent big bucks to have custom castings made. Unless they're coated, the color also shows more of a high nickel stainless look, like factory 460 (7.5L) truck manifolds.
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Why not just cut a block in half, use one head, and have an I-4 Hemi SOHC? Better fit and possibly cooler. Lot of effort, but I just don't like it. Just me.
Then he could as well use a Mercedes M102 Engine where the head is
a close copy of a S.O.H.C head
But a it wouldn't be a Ford engine :-)
He said he wanted to put the biggest engine in the smallest bay, why not the largest I-4 in place of the smallest? I-4???
That lower header placed UNDER the engine seems like it would quickly bake everything above it, and around it, as it looks to be placed in a heat-trapping space with nowhere for the heat to go.
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Heo, here are a couple more photos of the front suspension. Lightened I-beam axle with all the bells and whistles; coil-overs, disk brakes, rack and pinion, and anti-roll bar.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4888/32191226168_a0cc5a3951_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/R3Cs1Q)AutoRama_T_5.jpeg (https://flic.kr/p/R3Cs1Q) by BRUCE SELBY (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150971499@N04/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4876/45150694715_77c46c89c5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bMP7vH)AutoRama_T_6.jpeg (https://flic.kr/p/2bMP7vH) by BRUCE SELBY (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150971499@N04/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4860/45150694295_1a139cee47_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bMP7ot)AutoRama_T_7.jpeg (https://flic.kr/p/2bMP7ot) by BRUCE SELBY (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150971499@N04/), on Flickr
As for the those exhaust "manifolds" the owner's son told me they were fabricated to look like they are cast, complete with the ceramic coating.
Bruce
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looks like there is some fourbar/ wishbone rods mounted at the s-curve of the axle
what i dont get is, on the left spindle there is a stearing arm at top of the spindle .
With what apears to be a stering rod that goes to a stearing box at the firewall somewhere
like a regular stearing
But then he have a rack-n-pinion stearing mounted on the axle ???
I like the "face" of the model-T with the stock shell and stock headlights
To nit-pic he dont have the Ford "smile" on the I-beam axle, but on the other hand
Ford dont had the smile before Model-A. And i should not had put lightening holes
outside the springs with that heavy engine
Do you have any pics of the rear suspension? Looks like it is a IRS based on a Quick change
with a Model A spring
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Heo, if you look really close, I don't think that's an actual rack and pinion steering, but rather just a drag link to tie the two sides together. I don't see a "rack" in the center.
Despite the just plain weird mounting of the engine, I really like the car, and the craftsmanship. The engine mounting just seems stupid. I like the '70s vibes of T and A buckets, even the one from Sweden.
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O.K. They are custom then! I was looking for my old photos (on my last cell, now long gone) from my Garlit's trip as the only ones I ever saw......so I guess I'll save any efforts. Amazing he'd go for making new 'look-alike' cast manifolds and not SS headers.
Heo, here are a couple more photos of the front suspension. Lightened I-beam axle with all the bells and whistles; coil-overs, disk brakes, rack and pinion, and anti-roll bar.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4888/32191226168_a0cc5a3951_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/R3Cs1Q)AutoRama_T_5.jpeg (https://flic.kr/p/R3Cs1Q) by BRUCE SELBY (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150971499@N04/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4876/45150694715_77c46c89c5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bMP7vH)AutoRama_T_6.jpeg (https://flic.kr/p/2bMP7vH) by BRUCE SELBY (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150971499@N04/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4860/45150694295_1a139cee47_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bMP7ot)AutoRama_T_7.jpeg (https://flic.kr/p/2bMP7ot) by BRUCE SELBY (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150971499@N04/), on Flickr
As for the those exhaust "manifolds" the owner's son told me they were fabricated to look like they are cast, complete with the ceramic coating.
Bruce
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Doug, you could be right on the steering. I just couldn't get close enough to trace everything.
Heo, no other rear suspension shots other than the one I posted at the beginning.
I agree on those exhaust manifolds, my preference would be to have a nice set of custom SS Tig-welded headers. But what about the innovation factor? :)
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Heo, if you look really close, I don't think that's an actual rack and pinion steering, but rather just a drag link to tie the two sides together. I don't see a "rack" in the center.
Despite the just plain weird mounting of the engine, I really like the car, and the craftsmanship. The engine mounting just seems stupid. I like the '70s vibes of T and A buckets, even the one from Sweden.
Something strange is going on with the stearing for sure. Maby that rubber accordeon is
a stearing damper or something like that. On the photo of the driverside there is something
that looks like the end of a shock
Yes i like it to but had rather had the valvecovers sticking out of the hood sides, why hide a S.O.H.C put an
axle with a smile on it, buggy spring, and shorten the apron under the radiator... done
Then try to avoid to blow the harshcloth from the roof ;D
Must send pics of it to Ollie for some inspiration for the centerdoor ;D ;D
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Doug, you could be right on the steering. I just couldn't get close enough to trace everything.
Heo, no other rear suspension shots other than the one I posted at the beginning.
I agree on those exhaust manifolds, my preference would be to have a nice set of custom SS Tig-welded headers. But what about the innovation factor? :)
yeaah... how many stainless headers is there out there compared to those manifolds. Ebay is full
of cheap Chinese SS headers so they dont hit the point anymore ;)
I tried to google this car but no luck....ohhh how i want an hour to crawl around this car
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It...has a facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/LethalT-236216287064014/
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Yess now i dont have to try to solve the mystery ;D It have rack and pinion stearing
but the rack is mounted alongside the frame under the cowl where you normaly have
the stearing box
The rubber accordeon is just an advanced 3 piece draglink to clear the crank
it got a perimeter frame under the splash aprons thats much wider than a regular frame.
The body and fenders is rearanged much and from the beltline down and the cowl it is sheetmetal
from a tudor. He managed to modifie the body without getting the proportions wrong, thats not easy
Many have tried to change Henrys design but few have came out better