Old truck brakes.

[Joey120373]

Hi all, I’ve been looking into getting a custom cam made for my upcoming engine project.
Talking to Brent, over several emails, at 4 in the morning ( does he sleep?! ) ,
It became clear that power brakes and a decent cam just generally don’t mix.

But I was hung up on the power brake issue, and it dawned on me that the reason I was hung up
About it was that the power disk/drum brakes on my 72f250 are just not all that good.
And my 69 F250, that I converted from manual drum/drum to power disk/drum, even when everything was brand nee, were exactly the same.
The manual drums were Really bad by modern standards, and the power disk/drum, while a lot better,
Still kinda suck.

So I didn’t want to do anything to make them worse, they are adequate now, but barely.

I’ve looked high and low for upgrades, but I haven’t found anything for a 3/4 ton. There are lots of systems out there for f100s, but nothing for 8 lug wheels.

I did find that converting to hydro boost seems to be a popular option, and the people doing it are doing it for the same reason. So I don’t think I’m alone in my opinion of the old Ford brakes.

So before I bit the bullet on that conversion I thought I would ask if anyone else had figured out any other way to improve the brakes?

[winr1]

Not sure if this helps  ( 65 F100 short wheelbase

Installed 74 spindles/disks and a 15/16" Granada disk/drum master cylinder

65 factory rear drums

Manual brakes, no power booster ...... stops good, even in the rain

Will make the front squat down if ya push the pedal hard

Weighs 3750 at the moment..... what does a 69/72 F250 weigh ??



Ricky.

[Joey120373]

Think it’s around 4500-5000 pounds.

[TJ]

Think it’s around 4500-5000 pounds.

That sounds about right.

I think with brakes “individual results may vary” applies.  Some people are happy with their brake modifications and some see no  benefit.  My ‘65 F250 still has the 4 wheel manual drums, and I’m in the camp of seeing no reason to change even when hauling or towing.  Compared to modern 4wheel discs I don’t see a noticeable improvement.  Your new brakes may just need a few hundred miles to wear in.

Where is your rpm target for peak hp?  My peak hp is at 5200 rpms and I’m getting 15 in Hg at idle. 

[blykins]

Think it’s around 4500-5000 pounds.

That sounds about right.

I think with brakes “individual results may vary” applies.  Some people are happy with their brake modifications and some see no  benefit.  My ‘65 F250 still has the 4 wheel manual drums, and I’m in the camp of seeing no reason to change even when hauling or towing.  Compared to modern 4wheel discs I don’t see a noticeable improvement.  Your new brakes may just need a few hundred miles to wear in.

Where is your rpm target for peak hp?  My peak hp is at 5200 rpms and I’m getting 15 in Hg at idle.

He’s got about 30 cubic inches on you and wants to pull the engine a good bit higher.  Takes a pretty big cam to get there and the advertised durations with hydraulic rollers can get up pretty high too.  His cam would be about 30 degrees larger than yours.

[TJ]

Think it’s around 4500-5000 pounds.

That sounds about right.

I think with brakes “individual results may vary” applies.  Some people are happy with their brake modifications and some see no  benefit.  My ‘65 F250 still has the 4 wheel manual drums, and I’m in the camp of seeing no reason to change even when hauling or towing.  Compared to modern 4wheel discs I don’t see a noticeable improvement.  Your new brakes may just need a few hundred miles to wear in.

Where is your rpm target for peak hp?  My peak hp is at 5200 rpms and I’m getting 15 in Hg at idle.

He’s got about 30 cubic inches on you and wants to pull the engine a good bit higher.  Takes a pretty big cam to get there and the advertised durations with hydraulic rollers can get up pretty high too.  His cam would be about 30 degrees larger than yours.

Sounds like he’ll use all the brakes he can get.  I’m on a different plane

[gregaba]

I don't know if you have power steering or not but you can switch to a hydro boost system.
I convert all my old cars to it.
You can use a 78 or so Lincoln HB system and it is a easy conversion you can do it for about $200 to $300.00.
Takes the vacuum out of the equation.
Great stopping power with front disc.
If you don't have power steering you will need the PS brackets and pump and lines.
Those cost about $250.00.
Greg
Greg 

[My427stang]

I am a manual brake fan when paired with the right master cylinder.   However, for yours, and Brent's comment on the cam plan, with room under the hood I would likely go hydroboost due to the weight of the truck. 

I went with a dual diaphragm master on my 71 F100 with a later disk brake front axle, but I don't run a lot of overlap so I am at 15 inches of vacuum, sounds like you won't be anywhere near there

[TJ]

Joey, you might search the Ford truck enthusiast forum.  I think your real challenge to get serious brakes is to get something better on the front than what came in the ‘70s.  All I’ve ever seen is the drum to disc swap which I kind of doubt will be as big of a change as you want...sounds like you want more than a step improvement.

The rear should be straight forward...I’m guessing you’ll get something besides a factory Dana 60 on the back anyway. Hydroboost is nice...that’s what my Chevy hd pickup has.

For my own curiosity, what tranny you planning to use?

[GJCAT427]

I`m working on a 64 F350 with factory power brakes right now. I replaced all the lines and shoes and put coppnic lines on. I switched the master to a latter 72 ford one ton master (4 wheel drum) cylinder. A new vaccum booster, original to the truck, and my brakes are not up to the task. I`ve been thinking of going to Hydro boost, I`ve got the unit off a 92 450. I can get the pump no problem and my big expence is the correct pulleys and  brackets for the 292 Yblock Bracket and pulleys are a couple hundered. We had a 77 chevy tonner with hydro boost and drums that would put you through the wind shield if you slamed the brakes in a panic stop. Our 97 dodge tonner is the same way with the hydro boost. That one is disc/drum. I`m still working out the details. Should stop the truck fine and give me the option if the Yblock is`nt enough power I want for towing. Think 410 and 5speed! 

[gregaba]

The 292 used to be used for heavy towing.
When I was a kid we hauled hay for the farmers around here. One of them had a Ford hay truck, don't remember what model but it had a 22 foot bed on it. We had to haul the hay 26 miles to stack it in the barn. We loaded between 95 and 135 bales on the truck each load. They weighed between 85 and a 105 pounds each.
Drum brakes.
You can expect to pull most loads fine just be prepared to take some time to get up to speed, and not run at modern freeway speeds.
Plus your breaking distance will be miles long.
His truck had the 292 4 barrel 4 speed grannie trans and a 450 or close rear gear.
Greg 

[The Magic Ratchet]

Search "vacuum pump for brakes" and you will find all sorts of OEM and aftermarket electric vacuum pump solutions.

Lou Manglass

[RustyCrankshaft]

https://www.battlebornbrakes.com/product-page/complete-1973-1979-ford-truck-super-duty-hydroboost-brake-conversion

Nice kit, I've built my own for less but this kit is fairly complete and is bolt on. I've installed 2 now.

They're working on a kit for the bump sides from what I was told when I ordered the last dent side kit from them.

[Joey120373]

I’ve ordered and received a new master cylinder for a later model truck. It should have a smaller bore than what is on the truck now, if I remember, it’s a 1 or 1 1/16 inch bore. I also ordered new, larger bore rear wheel cylinders. I know changing out the rear wheel cylinders won’t have much effect, but they were $5 each.

I’ll try that first just to see what effect it may have.