Starting to understand why building engines may be best left to the professional

[Yellow Truck]

Well, I pulled it anyway because I wanted to get at the bolt that might be leaking. In any case found a set today so I don't need to cut anything.

Am going to pull that bolt after dinner and try to get it all glued up again so it has time to set before I run it again. I hate leaks.

CJ - I put in a new distributor because I just lost confidence in the old rig.

[My427stang]

You can absolutely make a pair of water pump gaskets, but you have to make a good ones

Hopefully they live and you can give them a wipe of RTV.

Get going, I want to hear about a 500 mile trip and how it just ran better and better every minute!

[Yellow Truck]

Good news is it has stopped leaking coolant. Took it out for a couple of runs. First to get it hot and turn down the idle. About 1/3 of a turn and it is idling happily at 800. I also noticed it isn't fighting me when I cold start it - it settles down quicker than it used to. When cold the vacuum at idle is around 6 inches, warm it is closer to 10.

It ran happy, good throttle response, nothing quirky and quite drivable. A little weak around 2,500 especially in 3rd, but it rips as it gets closer to 3,000. Part of the issue is that with the NP435 it is almost always at an awkward RPM. One thing I need to do is swap out the NP435/Dana 21 combo for a Borg Warner T19 and a Dana 21 to get 4 usable gears with better splits. With the venerable NP435 it seems you are ALWAYS in the wrong gear.

So, for those of you who have followed the rabbit, I started on this particular quest by deciding that putting a new cam in my 410 would get me a wider torque curve to compensate for the wide spits in the transmission (it used to drop on its face at 4,500), and it would be cheaper than buying a new transmission and t-case (about $3,500). Then I decided that the old 410 was not going to do what I wanted, so I am now the proud and poorer owner of a 445, and I am now considering the transmission anyway.

And down the rabbit hole we find our selves! To quote Warren Beatty playing Bugsy Siegel - "it's only dirty paper".

After the idle reduction I shut it off, started it, and shut it off and both times it wasn't clean, but it was barely one fire. Took it over to the auto parts store to pick up some power steering fluid, and it ran on pretty badly when I shut it down, and it ran on a bit when I got it home.

I think I'll try closing the secondary a little and see how it behaves. Either way, time to put some miles on it before I store it, I'll try to get some O2 readings with a passenger to video the O2 sensor, vacuum, and tach.

In the spring, assuming I have time before my hip surgery and the weather is in my favour, I'll run it some more (500 miles!) and get it on a dyno sometime in the summer.

[My427stang]

Paul, what are you running for fuel in the truck?

Sometimes, different fuel blends can be significantly different for run-on.  May want to try a tank of something else and loosen the engine up a little before you change anything else.  Maybe look for a very different brand, or potentially a higher octane and see if it changes.  You may be surprised.

I hear you on the NP435, I have the same issue with mine, depending which gear set you have it can be very bad, mine isn't too bad, but my dad used to run a stout 390with a 6cyl NP435 and it's gear combo was horrible.  I think mine will eventually have a TKO-600 in it and a divorced transfer case, but too many things going on right now for that

[Yellow Truck]

I'm running Shell's 91 octane. I use it because there are a couple of 93 octane fuels available here but they have alcohol in them where the Shell is pure petroleum.

I hear you on running it a bit. BTW, when I look at a TKO 600 the shifter seems to be much further back than the Borg Warner T19 or the NP435. I like the idea of 5 gears, but I don't like where it puts the stick.

[Drew Pojedinec]

I'd run the 93.

[My427stang]

I'd run the 93.

Me too, at least a tank as an experiment. 

BTW, I put a TKO in a customer's 67 2WD and used the mid shift option.  It puts it right where you'd want it.  Fun little truck, 2WD short bed, 396 alum heads, RPM intake, Thumpr cam and the TKO, made a fun cruiser 

[Yellow Truck]

I saw those plates on top and was wondering if they were alternative linkage points.

I have about a half tank of pure petroleum in it right now, and on Monday (our Thanksgiving) I'll get some O2 readings - need someone to hold the phone to capture video. I have read that ethanol gives leaner readings and I assume we want to know what it looks like with petroleum only.

Then I'll top it up with the 94 octane (highest available).

Took it out for a good rip today - it is fun to drive now. Now have to be careful not to chirp the tires on standing starts.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Nothing wrong with E10.
I daily drive carbureted vehicles.... I don't actually own a modern vehicle.  I run pump gas E10 exclusively and have no issues that could be traced to it.

Leaner/richer readings really aren't important, A/f readings are a great tuning aid, but if an engine I'm tuning runs best at 13.8 or 15.2 doesn't really matter to me, I just put it there.
For me at least, the greatest benefit I get out of an A/f guage has nothing to do with ratio,  I use them the most for circuit timing.

[Yellow Truck]

Nothing wrong with E10.
I daily drive carbureted vehicles.... I don't actually own a modern vehicle.  I run pump gas E10 exclusively and have no issues that could be traced to it.

Leaner/richer readings really aren't important, A/f readings are a great tuning aid, but if an engine I'm tuning runs best at 13.8 or 15.2 doesn't really matter to me, I just put it there.
For me at least, the greatest benefit I get out of an A/f guage has nothing to do with ratio,  I use them the most for circuit timing.

Well, it will probably be next year, but I may get you to teach me what to do with the A/F gauge.

I asked here early on about E10 vs lower octane pure gas and was told to go with the gas. Happy to switch and see what it does.

[68fecyclone]

I will say this about using e10, do not leave that crap in the tank all winter, you will have issues in the spring. I have found that much more then a couple months in a open fuel system like our old trucks have, it gets bad real fast. I only use straight premium in any thing that sits a Lot.
   I am glad you finally have the truck running good,  I have followed this from the beginning. Rob

[Drew Pojedinec]

I dunno about being an issue over winter.... maybe if it sits that long.

My vehicle cycle is as tough as it gets.  I drive to the airport, pull the battery cable and leave my truck there for a month or longer while I'm at work.
When I get home, I fill the bowls, attach the battery, fire up the engine.
After a 2 minute warmup, checking for leaks and doing a brake check I'm on the highway doing 70mph for the next 1.5hours.

I find the fuel just evaporates out of the bowls.  At worst it leaves a very light whitish dust on the bottom of the bowls, but it seems to take a few years to accumulate.  My current clean up schedule is every fall I change the oil in all of my vehicle no matter how many miles.  I also pop off the bowls to inspect.  Typically a quick carb cleaner squirt and a rag wiped along the bottom of the bowl and I'm putting it all back together.  I've never seen where I would have though it was an issue.

Maybe the fuel is worse in other countries, or in New Jersey/California/other restrictive emissions states.

At this time I've got my vehicles tuned tight enough on E10 they do't run as well on pure gasoline

Either way, so happy you are pretty much there Paul. 

[My427stang]

I will be honest, I don't even think about ethanol. My lawn mower, snow blower and two stroke weed-wacker and blower have never been apart, start first pull and all are at least 10 years old.  (OK a little lie, actually the 4 strokes fire first pull, the 2-strokes are 2 pulls full choke, then 1 pull no choke LOL)

My Mustang got EFI in 2009, and got a fresh fuel filter in 2013 and the old one looked new.  Pulled the bowls on the 1000 Holley after it was run 3 years on E10 and whatever else I threw in the tank pre-Mustang EFI, looked new, so I put it on the 445 truck without even a fresh kit.

I also live in Nebraska, the land of ethanol, and people claim our E10 is likely 15-20 and not a regular mix, I don't know.  However, I also don't even consider the tuning to be that significant unless somehow you are able to tune to a knife's edge.

I do add Stabil to my tanks each winter, and the the car sits in a sealed bag, the truck usually sits at home in a garage that swings in temp from 65 to whatever outside temp is, and the lawn equipment gets no maintenance at all and sits near the garage door (shame on me LOL, I can't even remember changing the oil in my lawn mower...some engine guy huh?)

That doesn't mean I think ethanol is economical or worth being subsidized at the levels it is, but as a fuel, for performance, it doesn't bother me at current mixes

I am going math geek on you now, keep in mind I used E15 for a bigger difference in the math, E10 would be slightly closer to gas.  This math also doesn't account for viscosity or whatever "gasoline" is, as there are different mixes and I just found the most repeatable values I could for power production I could in 10 minutes of looking.

- If the BTU value for gas is 116K, and pure ethanol is 77K, a 15% mix of gas/ethanol (E15) would mathematically be 110K (all rounded)

- That difference is 5%

- A Holley 80 jet, with a hole size of .093, has an area of .00679

- A 5% increase to supply the same BTU value of fuel is an area of .00712, that is about equal to a Holley 83 jet

- Now, 3 jet sizes can be significant, but, if you consider a stock Holley build to be a bit on the rich side, and you realize that all the circuits can be a little fat, making up the difference is likely in the carb already, and as long as you aren't running on the lean side, you are likely just fine. 

- Again, the math does not account for alcohol flowing more easily (which I would think it would but I could not find a value for "pump gas" viscosity) and the actual make up of the gasoline we call "pure" has quite a range, so who knows

****I built this on a spread sheet, so I couldn't help myself, the percentage difference for E10 would be 3% which equates to just the low side of the 83 jet.  Pretty much the same


 

[Yellow Truck]

I use Stabil as well. Haven't had a problem in 10 years with the truck put away for months.

On a different front, I noticed something lying in the header pipes where they converge and lo and behold it was a header bolt. Another reason to be underwhelmed by my local shop. Question - what torque value should I use going into aluminum heads?

[My427stang]

I use Stabil as well. Haven't had a problem in 10 years with the truck put away for months.

On a different front, I noticed something lying in the header pipes where they converge and lo and behold it was a header bolt. Another reason to be underwhelmed by my local shop. Question - what torque value should I use going into aluminum heads?

3/8 bolt is generally about 30 ft lbs, but I'd be surprised if you can get a socket on every one.

The way I do it is with a variety of wrenches.  I lube the bolts with anti-seize, then tighten them all evenly and lightly, then I go back and work my way through the entire group evenly using a box end wrench as tight as I can. 

After that, I fire the engine and let it get hot, then shut it down and do it one more time, while still hot,  with gloves on, then never ever ever touch them again LOL