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Messages - cobracammer

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16
Member Projects / Re: 482 SOHC "Saleen Cammer" update
« on: July 01, 2021, 02:50:41 PM »
Thanks Doug!  For a little bit, I was considering purchasing 1 cheap gasket, and then a few pieces of High temp silicone mat (usually come in sheets of Orange or Black)....  then just tracing custom silicone gaskets using the cheap one as a template.....

But the more I thought about it, I wondered why no one sells oil pan gaskets made out of high temp silicone rubber for the Ford FE engines.  My thought was that those silicone mats come in different thicknesses, don't shrink (or very little) and are naturally a tacky non-slip material- so probably would not need any sealant.  Anyone have thoughts on that?

17
Member Projects / 482 SOHC "Saleen Cammer" update
« on: July 01, 2021, 02:03:15 PM »
Well hello.....  I didn't see you there.  LOL

As this has been a crazy year (as I am sure it has been for all), I haven't had time to post, but I am always here looking at others projects......  a little "Dr. Feel Good" for my eyes.

Now that things have calmed a bit, I wanted to give a little update on the "Saleen Cammer" as well as a little project that I am sure will end up not being "little".

Car runs well!  Haven't really put that many miles on it, just a few loops around town every few months to get an alignment or car show.  Ofcouse the tuning the guys on "Car Fix" did on the show helped a lot with the unburnt fuel smell, but I needed to go a little bit further.  I picked up a set of high flow catalytic converters from Pypes.  As they are meant to go right after the collectors to take advantage of all that exhaust heat- I already saw a problem.  My headers were custom pieces and do not leave enough room between the V band flange on the collector and the transmission.  The next spot with a long enough run of straight exhaust tubing was right after the X pipe.  Distance wise, it was only about 12-15 inches from where they were meant to be mounted in a perfect world, but still- my thinking was that I was not going to get all the heat needed.  Either way, my fix was to use header wrap on the X Pipe.  This way the heat from my headers (which are ceramic coated) now travel through the insulated X pipe through the Cats and then on.  This should at least "buy" me a little more heat retention.  After a text drive of about 20 minutes or so- Total success!  Fuel smell has almost been eliminated.

Now on to the current project.  After a few years now of having the small oil leak under the car (even when its not running), I have been slowly investigating and testing to see if its really the rear main seal, Oil pan gasket(s), or a leak from elsewhere higher up that is making its way sneakily down undetected to appear as though its one of those previous areas.

First clue is that it will drip even when it hasn't been run in months.  It drips more obviously after its been run and the oil has thinned, but 3 or 4 months of just sitting in the garage, I will still see a little puddle.  Another clue was when I was installing brand new axle bearings and seals.  With just the rear of the car jacked up, no oil drips.  The car sat like this for a little over a week as I awaited tools and parts to arrive in the mail.  SO - the day I jacked it up in the rear, I also slid under the front and wiped everything down as much as possible as well as cleaned the floor under the engine.  By the time I was done with the rear bearings, there were no engine leaks visible.  My guess is that the oil in the pan was tilted away from the section in the rear that was leaking and thus didn't drip.  This gave me hope that it was just something like pan gaskets (as Jay had originally suggested it might be) when my mind kept going to rear main seal.
My last little clue was the oil pan fasteners.  It currently has studs with flange nuts all the way around.  A year or so ago, I went around the pan and hand snugged them all to approx. the same tightness (torque becomes an issue as there is not much room under there to get the torque wrench to each nut give the headers, starter, cross member, custom oil pan flare outs for additional oil capacity, etc.  I had noticed when doing this that it did feel as though a few of them were a little looser than the others.  Unfortunately, even after I snugged each one down at that time, the oil puddle kept haunting me.  This time, after the rear bearing job, I went around to each stud/nut again to see if any had loosened and they had!  the current fastener set up will definately need to be changed.

So in preparation, I purchased 2 brand new Milodon Premium FE oil pan gaskets (because the engine has a windage tray),  High temp Copper RTV (I know everyone says black or red- but this copper stuff specifically says for use with oil pans and I had it on hand from the exhaust work recently completed),  a set of Stage-8 locking oil pan bolts to replace the studs and flange nuts currently on there, and an engine support bar (because I am going to try and do this without pulling the engine.  What will need to be done in order to access the pan is that the front K member will need to be dropped.  My thinking is that it will be "easier" to do that then to pull apart the exhaust, Headers, trans, fuel system, coolant system......etc to pull the engine.  "Easier" meaning the lesser of 2 evils.

The only part of not pulling the engine I will regret is that I have always wanted to connect the small front sump of the oil pan to the rear deep sump.  I am not sure why this pan was designed like this (even has 2 oil drain plugs), but in my mind the 2 quarts of so that would live in the smaller front sump are basically useless.  My thought was to weld 2 seperate -12 AN fittings to the front sump and 2 matching -12 AN fittings to the rear sump- Attaching them with braided hose and AN fittings.  This way they can be connected after the engine has been installed and can run under the K member bracing to allow the front sump oil to flow freely into the rear sump (increasing capacity by like 2 quarts!).......  I guess that will have to wait for another time.

Anyway, I know these posts are slightly boring without photos, So I will try and snap a few as this "little" project gets under way.   8)

18
I have always loved those spoked Shelby wheels.  Car looks amazing Jay!

19
Member Projects / Re: 62 Falcon, new engine, new attitude
« on: August 12, 2020, 12:36:01 PM »
Love the hood scoop.  Is that custom?  It looks a lot like the fiberglass one I have from Cervini.  Looks great!!!!

20
Member Projects / Re: Cooling upgrade has arrived <update> road test
« on: July 28, 2020, 07:16:32 AM »
I had this exact same issue!  It was opposite of what I thought, but by mounting the fans directly on the radiator without the shroud, I got more airflow at any speed and the temp came down.  My only difference between overheating and perfection was removing the shroud. Hope this helps   ;)

21
Thanks guys!  yea even Strange Tech people said its different for everyone based on your case and its machined surfaces.

Also, and I prob should have done this first ....  I wanted to make sure that my starrett depth micrometer was correct, and it turns out it was 0.003" off!  at 1 inch, it read 1.003".  So, when I measured from the parting line of the case to the lowest point in the bearing journal. and the measurement from the parting line to the pinion to get my pinion depth....... both were 0.003" off.

O well.  I have since calibrated the micrometer, and its dead nuts on the money (for the next time I use it!) .

22
Took the car out and was able to get all the way up through 6th Gear (not thrashing it, just slowly working my way up in speed)....  Whine/ howl is gone!  Awesome!  Thank you all for your help with this!!

23
Called Strange (US Gear) this morning just to touch base.  The last photos he said are way off (0.032" shims).  He said def do not run that pattern.

He took a look at my first photos (the one exactly to the CD of 1.016" pinion depth) and said its REALLY close.  He would consider adding a 0.005" shim and adjusting backlash again.  I explained that I had done so all the way up to a 0.040" shim (trying backlashes from 0.008" all the way to 0.015" (which is out of spec)......just to see what effect it would have.  Nothing looked as "solid" as the first photos (even though they looked a bit to low on the tooth on the drive side).

He said to take it for a drive, only a few miles and listen for any noise.  As the gear set does not need a break in (Lightning series gears are manufactured so they do not need break in), if its going to make noise, it will do it right away.  if it does, then add 0.005" shim, adjust backlash and try again.  He said they way it looks now (0.015" shim), is the way competitive racers set them up for a mechanical advantage (low on the gear tooth). 

Either way, running it at this point is the only way to test. 

24
OK guys.  Here it is.  I would ask for feed back, but there is nowhere to go from here as I went all the way up to a .040 shim and then went back to what looked the best.

I ended up back at 0.032 " shim which put the drive side and the coast side directly in the middle of the tooth.  I know it looks a little close to the tip of the tooth on the drive side, but adding shims all the way up to 0.040" did not make it go any deeper.

Here it is.  Spins smooth, backlash at 0.009" and everything torqued to spec.

First picture is Drive side

second photo is coast side

Thoughts????

25
Alright.  Here is where we are.

I took my newly acquired tools and wanted to get an accurate pinion depth reading.  The pinion itself has the CD of 1.016" (pinion depth).  I used this method:

1st, I measured the OD of the carrier bearing race and marked that number down.
2nd, I divided that measurement in half and wrote it down.
3rd, using a depth micrometer, I measured from the parting line in the case (bearing caps) to the deepest part of the bearing journal (marking this measurement down.
4th... now, the measurement from the parting line to the deepest part of the bearing journal was 0.003" greater than the measurement of 1/2 the OD of the bearing race.  This means the parting line in the case is not actually the centerline.... its 0.003" higher.
5th, I took a measurement with the depth micrometer from the parting line closest to the pinion "tip" and marked this measurement down.  Since the parting cap is 0.003" higher than the actual center line, I subtracted the 0.003" from the pinion tip measurement and got the actual pinion depth from centerline.  Using a 0.015" shim, I was able to get the actual pinion depth to 0.017" (only 0.001" from the measurement marked on the actual pinion of 0.016")


With that completed, and after getting the pinion put together earlier today, I moved on to setting carrier bearing pre-load and backlash.  I got the pre-load set (without the pinion installed), then installed the pinion and set backlash.  I have backlash set at 0.009" to 0.010".

I torqued down the main caps, torqued down the pinion carrier bolts, and smeared on some marking compound and.........

First picture is the Drive side (seems too low for being almost exact on the manufacturers pinion depth)

Second picture is the Coast side, which seems almost perfect.

Not sure if this is acceptable because if I change pinion depth to raise drive side, I will be off of spec and it will also mess up the already perfect coast side.


The last photo is the correct pattern per US Gear (Strange).  It appears from their image that drive would be a little lower than coast, but not sure if my current pattern is ok.

Please let me know what your thoughts are!  I just stopped for the night until I consulted you all.

26
OK where I am at right now....

I got the pinion and housing all broken down.  Using the solid spacer and shims purchase, I went at getting 25 in lbs of preload on the pinion.

The old pinion pulled out had a solid spacer with no extra shims.  It measured 0.500" .  For Sh!ts and giggles, I reinstalled the original 0.500" spacer and gave that a try.  At 200 ft lbs or torque on the pinion nut. I had "0" in lbs of preload.  LOL

Then I disassembled and put in my new solid spacer that came with my rebuild kit (measuring 0.450") and have that a shot.  Since it was smaller, I decided to slowly torque to pinion nut and check the drag as I went.  With only 50 ft lbs of torque, it was not budging (turning).

OK....  somewhere between this 0.450 and 0.500" spacer is my ideal.  Then I tried 0.013 shim for a total of 0.463".....  no luck, 75 in lbs of torque to turn.  Then 0.018 shim for a total of 0.468.. nope.... to tight.  Then 0.480- Nope  ended up being like 0.492 or there about.......  after its all put back together with the pinion seal in place, I was getting 30 in lbs of preload (thats with the seal so about 25 to 25 without the seal.  Since the shims only came in 0.012, 0.013, 0.015, 0.018, 0.020...  I was just lucky I did not need minor  shims.  (somewhere I heard there are packs of 0.001 shims for fine tuning). 

In the end, Pinion is all set.  Will be checking pinion depth (maybe adding a shim) and then patterns!!!  I will post pictures of my patters before I reinstall.  Just to be sure I am getting the "perfect" pattern.....:0)

27
OK, got the pinion (daytona) support disassembled.  Findings..... 

1.Bearings are ok, but I will install new ones that came with the rebuild kit.

2. Races- also ok as there is barely 100 Miles on this car in total since installed..... I might keep the old bear races as they are in such great shape.

3. There was no crush sleeve.  This unit was originally built with a solid spacer (with no additional shims) to attain proper pre-load on the pinion.

I have a analog in lb torque wrench coming today.  This will allow me to test pre-load before installing and checking pinion depth.  Pinion depth is marked on the new pinion itself and is listed as 1.036"

I have a depth Micrometer to enable me to check and shim until I am 1.036" from Ring gear centerline.

Hopefully with this being a new ring and pinion, I will be able to see a proper pattern when its time to test.

:0)

28
Ok I got to that point.  I think I did it correctly and tightened the ring gear side adjuster to get. 0.008" case deflection.  Is it supposed to feel so still to turn?  I can spin it ( and its smooth) but stops spinning almost immediately.  What is proper carrier bearing preload supposed to feel like ( spinning the ring gear)?  Thanks again!

29
Hey Drew,

The case spread of 0.008.  I am guessing thats how you know you have to correct Carrier Bearing preload?  Its the only thing I cant find a tool for (most people seem to cut up an extra 31 spline axle and weld a nut on the end so they can check preload with a torque wrench.

is 0.008" the preload for a Ford 9"?

30
Yea no biggie.  Anyway, I was going to wait a bit, but it kind of bothers me  LOL.

I ran back out there today and pulled it all apart again.  I am going to set it up with the new gear, pinion and bearings (So I know its correct).

As a side note, I was thinking about what I found on the original inspection.  As I had said, there was originally 2 pinion shims when I pulled the pinion assembly the first time.  They were 2 separate 0.020" shims.  From what I read online, it seems like the "normal" shim size needed is between 0.015 and 0.023 roughly?  Mine had 0.040" from the get go.  Seems excessive as a starting point, no?  I am thinking that the person assembling it grabbed a 0.020 pinion shim, and there were 2 stuck together?  Maybe there should have only been 1 pinion shim of 0.020" to start?  Dunno.

Let you know (and I will take some photos as I assemble) how it goes this time around.


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