FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: MeanGene on March 26, 2022, 12:25:21 PM
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OK, looking for hard facts from the experienced FE builders, not "I think- I read- I heard" please. Are the "steel" gears supplied with the MSD #85941 distributors compatible with steel solid roller cams from Comp etc? MSD advertises them for use with hydraulic roller cams, no mention of solid rollers. This gear is also sold as #85813. I called the tech line this morning for clarification, and the response seemed very CYA, that they could not recommend the gear for use with aftermarket cams as they had no control over the type of material the cams were made from, contact the cam manufacturer blah blah, so a non-answer. He did state that the gears were "melonized steel". So, is this gear compatible with the steel solid rollers, and if not, what do the knowledgable builders use with the MSD distributors with the larger shaft and solid rollers? The Crane 34970-1 is (was?) for the stock Ford shaft size, and comes up as "not available" where I have looked
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The only hydraulic roller and solid roller cores available for the FE are billet steel. They are essentially the same core, etc., they are just ground with the lobes that are desired.
With that being said, to answer your question, yes, the 85941 gears will work with any billet steel FE camshaft.
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There are several types of "billet steel" camshafts.
They do not all work with the melonized steel distributor gears.
Comp cams uses 5150 or 5160 steel for their billet cams. These alloys are induction hardened cores. I believe these cores work with the mentioned steel distributor gears.
8660 is also induction hardened - but are a step up from 5150 or 5160
8620 and 8660 are carburized camshafts - one can identify with the copper plating between lobes.
The Crane roller cams were typically carburized 8620 cores
Not a one size fits all!
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There are several types of "billet steel" camshafts.
They do not all work with the melonized steel distributor gears.
Comp cams uses 5150 or 5160 steel for their billet cams. These alloys are induction hardened cores. I believe these cores work with the mentioned steel distributor gears.
8660 is also induction hardened - but are a step up from 5150 or 5160
8620 and 8660 are carburized camshafts - one can identify with the copper plating between lobes.
The Crane roller cams were typically carburized 8620 cores
Not a one size fits all!
I have one of those Crane hyd roller cams that has the copper plating between the lobes.
New, never run.
So what dist gear would be recommended for that cam?
I'm not going to use the cam, but will sell it and would like to advise the potential buyer on what to use.
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Getting the popcorn ready! Here we go again.
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Getting the popcorn ready! Here we go again.
Guess I should have included "no wiseass remarks please"- but as this isn't yellowbullet, didn't feel it was necessary
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Getting the popcorn ready! Here we go again.
Guess I should have included "no wiseass remarks please"- but as this isn't yellowbullet, didn't feel it was necessary
You can trust what I told you. Comp now pretty much grinds 100% of my custom camshafts. I use a ton of the MSD 85941 distributors and also have used the Mallory 29420 gear for the MSD distributors. Also have some steel gears for the .467" size.
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I carry melonized steel gears. They come from Crane's former supplier. Been Crane and these folks I have installed literally hundreds of them. My success rate so far is roughly 100%
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The whole thing really just makes sense when you know the timeline of everything . But in saying that , the whole mass of confusion just makes sense as well. I mean , why even sell a bronze hear anymore ? Why have all these damn flavors of gears floating around out there unless they are simply stock that was produced and vendors are still trying to off load them.
It would seem that you only real need the cast , and the steel now... The ones requiring the melonized as I always knew it was the stock for rollers and a small part of the aftermarket that was producing cams that followed the OEMs manufacturing process.....
I mean seriously , your regular guy thats an accountant or whatever hes putting an engine together and hes not a dumb guy. He goes online and does a little reading hes buying a bronze gear more than likely if he got the roller cam... I mean the information thats out there will refresh over time and when that same kinda guy searches he will get a steel gear but that might take awhile... The melonized gears are jsut not something talked about all that much... Atleast in what ive read over the years... Mostly see it when looking on the small block ford forums dealing with the alphabet cams and stockers...Then the exact same discussions start...
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That's pretty much it. I use cast gears and I use steel/melonized gears.
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I have and old iskendrerian mech. roller cam can I use the mallory 29420 gear with it. thank Marc.
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This thread reminded me that I forgot to grab my zip lock of fresh watermelon to go with my lunch. ;D
>Guess I should have included "no wiseass remarks please"- but as this isn't yellowbullet, didn't feel it was necessary
MeanGene, you won the Internet for me today.
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Thanks for chiming in, Brent n Barry, knew you were going to say that, just weird that MSD says for hydraulic rollers in the listing, but then they say they don't recommend them for "aftermarket" cams- but there never were OEM rollers for an FE, only aftermarket???
Chris, I left out The HAMB for wiseass remarks ;D
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Sorry for throwing in the crack about popcorn. But I've seen this subject go sideways several times in different forums. This time the professionals got it handled quickly. I'll go back to the bench now. Thanks for the serious responses.
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Well the popcorn crack wouldnt be inaccurate now would it ? Ive seen people going on about these things like they own stock in the gear makers... Hell , maybe they do !! This goes back to my first post about this.. Ya gotta start by understanding where the folks are coming from. Yeah they might go a little hard on what they believe but there is a pretty good reason they believe what they do.
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Well the popcorn crack wouldnt be inaccurate now would it ? Ive seen people going on about these things like they own stock in the gear makers... Hell , maybe they do !! This goes back to my first post about this.. Ya gotta start by understanding where the folks are coming from. Yeah they might go a little hard on what they believe but there is a pretty good reason they believe what they do.
"not "I think- I read- I heard" please". That's two posts for you, doing exactly what I didn't ask for- blathering on with no real hard knowledge from experience to add. Sorry if that seems harsh, but I have no need of or time for "I think- I read- I heard" or "they believe", going on and on- just hard facts from the BTDT guys with real knowledge and experience, which was provided by guys I trust. Thanks to all, and to all a good night
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This time the professionals got it handled quickly.
That is why I specifically asked for "not "I think- I read- I heard" please". Just the facts, man, just the facts- no blarney
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Well MeanGene I dont really care in case that wasnt already crystal clear. WHat I posted was relevant to the discussion which will be read by others than yourself seeking information and the whys of the whole thing... I assure you , my time is a bunch more valuable than yours . not to be harsh or anything.....
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I assure you , my time is a bunch more valuable than yours
OK, didn't realize you were so special- male stripper perhaps? lol ::)
You're still not getting it, "OK, looking for hard facts from the experienced FE builders, not "I think- I read- I heard" please. " As in avoiding stories, speculation, opinions etc. If you notice, the BTDT guys I was asking for gave quite direct and short answers to the question- not short novels about the cosmic reality of it all. Have a nice day doing your very important stuff
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Oh I get it , you say "I" quite a bit . I get that you either didnt read nor grasped what I had to say about it. Well this is THAT information that people will read when they do a search.... I know I know , heart breaking that its not about you... But those are the breaks kid......
By the way , you got your answer fairly quickly , a person pissing and moaning about time and so forth would have just ride off into the sunset after getting what they asked for....But no , you clearly had the time to type away completely oblivious to anything not involving YOU..... Carry on.... Im late for the strip club....
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Alright you two, maybe I SHOULD make the popcorn. ENOUGH!