This is getting frustrating...new 445 reluctant to start.

[My427stang]

RI did pull one of the header gaskets because it was leaking like mad, and I'm sad to say the crush points on the headers miss the top of the intake, and I can't pull them up enough with the header bolts in place to correct. I think I have a nasty bit of grinding in my future to oval out the holes on the headers to let me install them a little higher.

You may not get where you want, you have to make up approx .250 and there just isn't that much room between the bolt head and the pipe

FPA makes headers with the CJ/Edelbrock pattern, but you do have to do a little grinding on the frame rail.  Other than that, they fit very nice

[Yellow Truck]

Ross, you may be right, but at present the crush on the gasket just misses the edge of the exhaust port or barely touches it. I hope I don't need new headers because 1) it is a bitch to get them in and out without pulling the engine (did it once) and 2) I have spent enough on this project (I know lots of other projects on this forum make mine look cheap but still...).


Thanks for the tip on the FPA headers. I see they have a set they claim work with a 4WD. I didn't know there was another option for the 4x4.

[My427stang]

I run Hedmans, but spent a lot of time and money on my D2s to flow less than your BBMs

I bet you can get them to seal, port alignment may not be perfect, but I bet you'll be OK.

Be sure to look at both the CJ and truck style header gaskets though, my hunch is the smaller ID Hooker or Hedman truck header will work better, but they are very different in port dimensions from a CJ/early port

[Yellow Truck]

Back to my primary problem - it won't start.

To recap - it had run fairly well but rich on the initial firing, with some dieseling on shutdown. On the final test we drove it a 1/2 mile and it quit cleanly on shut down. After not being able to start it I put a new coil and Ignitor on it, and noticed the timing light was showing flashes on the coil side, but none on the plug side of the distributor, and no spark on a plug when pulled.

I bought and put a new cap and rotor on, cleaned the spark plug terminals and put the wires back on. Yes, I got the firing order right. I charged the battery before any tests (12.9 V). Tried to crank it a few times by giving it a good squirt of gas from the carb and holding the throttle about 1/4 or 1/3 open. Not even a hint of firing.

Then we pulled the number 5 plug and with the plug making contact with intake (I checked it for continuity to ground and it was good), and the plug made a weak, orange flash, and missed some.

Then I ran a wire from the positive on the battery directly to the positive on the coil and tried it again. Same weak orange spark. Then we changed back to the original coil, same weak spark.

Then I thought I should check continuity to the plug, so we checked the inside of the cap to the end of the plug wire, and got about 120 ohms, so no problem there.

Then I checked the plug - I'm running Autolite 3924s on Barry's recommendation, and we saw 8,000 ohms, which seems in spec. They are a bit dirty (oily) but not soaked in fuel.

We are not getting any fire from the engine.

[Lenz]

Can appreciate your frustration, we've all been there at some point for sure.  At this point I'd be rolling the engine to TDC, indexing the distributor and rotor locations relative to the cap and intake and then yanking the distributor for a thorough check end to end.  I can't get my mind past the consistent good spark in from the coil and the weak (orange) to nothing out.  It would be great if you had a good spare to throw in and test but I know that's not usually the case.

I'm at that point where it is easy for me to miss the elephant in the room, these are just my thoughts on what I'd be doing at this point.-
Len

[Falcon67]

My bet would be on the module.  Check the entire ignition circuit or leave the battery connection.  Check the distributor to block connection, make sure its clean for a good ground.  And/or run a wire from the dist. body to the frame.  Make sure you have a good solid cable connection between the engine and the frame as well as a battery negative connection to either the frame and/or the engine.  Failing all that, put a points distributor back in it - if it fires, throw the Pertronix over the fence.

I'm sure they have many satisfied customers, but I've heard about so many issues I'd personally never buy one.  To many other solid options.

[My427stang]

I think you have a distributor problem too.  Although it may be firing enough out of the coil to trigger a light, it sounds like it's not powerful enough to jump the rotor/cap air gap.   

Did you pull the coil wire and see what the spark looks like out of there?

[Yellow Truck]

Well, this is interesting. It has been raining heavily hear for the past few days and promises to continue into next week. Since the truck is outside I don't have a chance of working on it until it stops.

I towed it to a local shop that is pretty Ford friendly (owner is an old Ford tech, and his dad worked on the assembly line). I first noticed them last week when I stopped at the parts store next to them to get a new rotor and cap and there was an honest to god Thunderbolt parked in front that was there for some work. Inside they had a late 40s pickup they were putting a 302 into, and a GTO and a late sixties Dart.

They tried some of the same things we had to try and get a better spark. Eventually, having had no success, one of the guys looked at the bracket and noticed I'd put a good coat of POR 15 on it. He remembered that years ago he had a car with a weak spark and it corrected when they tightened the coil bracket, so he scraped some paint of and clamped it down. Now it had good spark, but still wouldn't start.

They pulled the plugs, which were a little fouled with carbon and gas, and cleaned them, and still couldn't get it to start, so they put in new NGK Platinum plugs and it lit first time.

Still need to work on the carb as it is running a bit rough and idling at around 900-1,000 rpm, but in torrential down pour today it got me home. Due to the severity of the weather I didn't try to slam it, but it is running!

[machoneman]

Yeah! Happy days are here again! 

[Yellow Truck]

Well, this is interesting. It has been raining heavily hear for the past few days and promises to continue into next week. Since the truck is outside I don't have a chance of working on it until it stops.

I towed it to a local shop that is pretty Ford friendly (owner is an old Ford tech, and his dad worked on the assembly line). I first noticed them last week when I stopped at the parts store next to them to get a new rotor and cap and there was an honest to god Thunderbolt parked in front that was there for some work. Inside they had a late 40s pickup they were putting a 302 into, and a GTO and a late sixties Dart.

They tried some of the same things we had to try and get a better spark. Eventually, having had no success, one of the guys looked at the bracket and noticed I'd put a good coat of POR 15 on it. He remembered that years ago he had a car with a weak spark and it corrected when they tightened the coil bracket, so he scraped some paint of and clamped it down. Now it had good spark, but still wouldn't start.

They pulled the plugs, which were a little fouled with carbon and gas, and cleaned them, and still couldn't get it to start, so they put in new NGK Platinum plugs and it lit first time.

Still need to work on the carb as it is running a bit rough and idling at around 900-1,000 rpm, but in torrential down pour today it got me home. Due to the severity of the weather I didn't try to slam it, but it is running!

For what it is worth I would not have tried grounding the body of the coil (no documentation anywhere I have seen calls for it) or replaced the plugs as one of the next 4 or 5 things I would have tried. Full respect to those who have done things many times and learned from it.

[fryedaddy]

way to hang in there till you got it.my son laughs at me sometimes when im having problems like that.he says ,dad you hang in there till you get it right one way or another. NEVER GIVE UP!

[WConley]

Great news!  Since that ground path is so important for your coil, I would pull the coil bracket off and put some anti-seize on the scraped-off areas.  That will ensure you continue to have a good connection going forward.  While you're at it I would make sure the coil-to-bracket surfaces are clean.

The NEG wire on your coil is going to a good clean ground, right?

Glad you got-er running!

- Bill

[machoneman]

Yes, one can't really have too many good ground straps! 

[Yellow Truck]

The NEG wire on your coil is going to a good clean ground, right?

- Bill

Bill, on the Pertronix instructions, and when I called them to confirm, there is no negative to ground on the coil terminal. They want that connected to the Pertronix unit negative. We did add a ground from the terminal in one of our tests and got no difference in the spark quality. I was asked earlier if I had checked the spark at the coil and I never go a break in the constant rain (which is REALLY odd here as we live in a semi desert).

I have just plain NEVER seen anything that suggests that the case of the coil needs to be grounded, but I'll file that one away in case I ever need it again.

Next up, after driving it home the temperature was at the low end of hot (not surprising, cool wet day, not driving it hard) and it dieseled for a few seconds on shut down. I haven't experienced this before on any of the previous engines in this truck.

[ScotiaFE]

Couple of things.
The run on is because you are running the carb fat.
Now there is nothing wrong with that, but it will cause the run on when the engine is up to temp.
You can lean it out a tad or if you like it that fat then put it in 4th and kind of stall the thing.
Most likely you have the blades open to much at idle and are fat on idle.
Depending on which Pertronix you have it will require a matched coil. Either a 1.5 ohm or 3.0 ohm.
It will make a big difference.
Do you have the correct coil?
Is your actual key switch in good working order?
Do you have a large ground strap from the engine to the chassis?
The best place is the back of the right head to the chassis.
It's a ground fault. Keep looking.