Author Topic: Holding 13:1 compression?  (Read 10266 times)

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FE Jonny

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Holding 13:1 compression?
« on: December 07, 2015, 04:55:42 PM »
Can I use a cometic steel gasket with aluminum heads or do I have to O- ring? Looking to run 13:1 with E85 and torque cam. Keeping RPM under 6 grand, I am going to mill the block and heads with flat tops.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 05:08:52 PM by FE Jonny »
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blykins

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Re: Holding 13:1 compression?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2015, 05:55:10 PM »
Cometics will work fine if the surface finish is up to par.

So what would happen if they stopped selling E85 in your area (which is possible...)? 

On a street engine, going from 10.5:1 to 13:1 may only net you 30-40 hp.  I would personally rather have the convenience of being able to drive anywhere in the US without having to worry about finding an E85 station.....not to mention that you will use a lot more E85 than you would with regular pump gas.
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cjshaker

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Re: Holding 13:1 compression?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2015, 06:33:24 PM »
So what would happen if they stopped selling E85 in your area (which is possible...)? 

....I would personally rather have the convenience of being able to drive anywhere in the US without having to worry about finding an E85 station.....

I'm guessing this isn't going to be a grocery getter....or cross country cruiser :)
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jayb

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Re: Holding 13:1 compression?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2015, 07:01:46 PM »
I use Cometics on my 13:1 high riser with no O-rings, and no problems.
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Stangman

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Re: Holding 13:1 compression?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2015, 11:52:32 PM »
What kind of modifications need to be done to run E85

Posi67

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Re: Holding 13:1 compression?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2015, 01:01:51 AM »
Cometic is the ONLY way to go IMO. Same thing Comp eliminator guys use at 16-1 compression and they are re-usable which offsets the initial cost in a hurry.

My427stang

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Re: Holding 13:1 compression?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2015, 07:55:00 AM »
What kind of modifications need to be done to run E85

A carb that has big enough restrictions in each circuit to feed the increased fuel requirement and a proper advance curve. 
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Falcon67

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Re: Holding 13:1 compression?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2015, 09:30:55 AM »
What kind of modifications need to be done to run E85

A/F ratio is on the order of 9:1 or so.  Quick Fuel sells a block set to upgrade a Holley.  Otherwise, heavy mods required.  It's about 2/3 way from gas to methanol.  I've seen guys testing run faster on methanol when they forgot to put any jets in the primary metering block - takes that much fuel to run alcohol. 

Also, be sure the rest of the fuel system is up to the volume required.  And I'd recommend you run a top lube with every tank.

And as above - it's not even sold around here.  I can get it if I want to put a barrel in the truck bed and drive 180 miles or so.  Or pay out the nose for VP.  Also, IIRC, the specification for E85 runs from E70-E90 so the formulation (and your carb calibration) can change depending on your location and time of year. 

IMHO - If you want to run 13:1 and an alcohol fuel, buy a carb calibrated for Methanol and buy VP by the drum.  It's not that expensive, relatively.  The benefit is that you get a fuel that is the same every time you buy it and you have one mixer calibrated for that fuel.  You want to switch to gas, you change carbs.  OR - if you insist on 13:1 then just go get VP 112 and be done with it.  E85 or Methanol, you are setting yourself up for increased maintenance. 

Stangman

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Re: Holding 13:1 compression?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2015, 11:27:22 AM »
Thanks guys never too old to learn

FE Jonny

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Re: Holding 13:1 compression?
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2015, 12:29:58 PM »
Well been around a while, just got rid of everything I had and cleaned house. I am running E85 due to in the Midwest it is plentiful and cheap. Also it is emissions friendly so I would be exempt as long as I pass a visual. I am changing my plan from a HP engine to a Torque monster and no better way to do it them with big compression, I was thinking 14:1 but in the winter the mix is more like 60% alcohol so I want to avoid detonation. Generally with the advantage of majorly advanced timing and way higher compression you gain about 30-40 percent effeiciency but use 30% more fuel so it equals out consumption wise. Torque and HP is definetlly boosted along with a lot better throttle response. The down side is you cannot let fuel sit, it attracts moisture so you have to use it up. What I will do is store it in a 55 gallon drum and mix it to my desired spec to maintain consistency. Around here 105 octane aviation fuel runs about 10 bucks a gallon, at the same octane E85 is 83 cents a gallon, that is below 10% cheaper a gallon. I am running a SN95 computer with a Moats Quarterhorse and Jaybird tuner so I can change timing, firing order and injector sequence along with get rid of batch fire to further increase efficiency. I think I can get 500 HP, and about 30 MPG out of it when all is said and done, I am going to have to change my roller cam to something different with less overlap to maintain compression though. Some guys I have seen are running 14:1 with boost and still not detonating. I am building a driver that has to run in cold weather so I want to keep compression around 13:1 to allow for a slightly higher gas content for easier starting below freezing. I am going to be running 33/12.50 tires, a T19 with a 6.7:1 first gear / 1:1 fourth and 3.70 gears so RPM should be about 2800-3000 on the highway.
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bill_396

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Re: Holding 13:1 compression?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2015, 12:51:27 PM »
I'm building my 12.6 to 1 461 for E-85. Here in Michigan it's available at most stations. I can see the smoke coming out of the stacks of the Ethanol plant on my way to work!

FE Jonny

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Re: Holding 13:1 compression?
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2015, 01:52:10 PM »
Actually Michigan is where I am moving to, I would like to end up by Iron Mountain or Marquette. Right now I am in Illinois but can't leave here soon enough LOL. Besides then I can stop by and harass Barry LOL.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 02:25:28 PM by FE Jonny »
Jon Heintz

FE Jonny

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Re: Holding 13:1 compression?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2015, 02:31:59 PM »
I wish I would have waited before I bought my intake and carbs. Now I am going injection. I have two 750 Eddys converted to E85 and a dual quad air gap intake sitting on the shelf.
Jon Heintz

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Re: Holding 13:1 compression?
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2015, 01:30:34 AM »
I don't buy the 85 cents a gallon for E85. Please explain because this part didn't make any sense. E85 is normally a little cheaper than regular, but what you save at the pump per gallon, you use up in fuel consumption. So it's a wash as far as fuel costs go. The benefit of E85 is when you use it in a forced induction application. You can't really capitalize on the benefits of E85 with natural aspiration. Sure you'll make more power regardless, but if my goal was to run E85 I'd do it with a supercharger or turbos in mind. Your static compression ratio is also kind of pointless without knowing what your dynamic is. You could run a lower compression piston that ends up with a higher dynamic CR, resulting in more power. It all depends on your cam choice. Something else to consider is, will the engine ever run another fuel? If you consider running any other fuel than E85, you're engine design choices have to reflect that and it's not just fuel consumption. Flex fuel engines are a compromise between being able to switch between 2 very different types of fuel and performance. To try and get everything you can out of E85 means that E85 has to become the only fuel you can run, without modifying the engine. Because you are going with EFI, this means remapping the ECU to take into account a different fuel. Chances are changing out the injectors will also be necessary. And if you switch to a lower octane gas, your engine might starting pinging because your cam choice and cam timing was designed for an alcohol.
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westcoastgalaxie

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Re: Holding 13:1 compression?
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2015, 10:27:05 AM »
Say what? 500 hp and 30 mpg??? I hope that is a typo, no way you are going to get that kind of mpg. I'd be surprised if you even broke 10 mpg.