Author Topic: aftermarket blocks? (Read 11303 times)

fe66comet · « **on:** June 28, 2014, 12:59:04 AM »

I know the Genisis block is no long, where is the Sideoiler Garage Iron Block made? There was talk a while back about a Chinese block, is this the one? Does pond or Shelby make an aftermarket cast iron? I am planning another build and thinking of using a FE for the next project. I have a 385 series block but it is harder to get parts and way more expensive to build.

fe66comet · « **Reply #1 on:** June 28, 2014, 02:34:57 AM »

Hmm I see the Pond Iron block can be built to 600 cubes, that is the same as the eliminator block I have but with a shorter stroke, the 385 requires 4.5 to get there the Pond settles in at 4.40. That would make for a faster revving engine at the same displacement. Interesting, I might have a prepped block for sale LOL.

Barry_R · « **Reply #2 on:** June 28, 2014, 05:41:34 AM »

Sideoiler Garage blocks are cast in Indianapolis, Indiana and machined in Fowlerville, Michigan.

Pond blocks are cast in the great lakes region as well.

Reaching 600 inches is a nigh unto impossible with any wedge, and only theoretically possible in a Cammer - requiring an enormous amount of machining creativity and time investment for a greatly diminishing amount of return.

fe66comet · « **Reply #3 on:** June 28, 2014, 06:55:39 AM »

blykins · « **Reply #4 on:** June 28, 2014, 07:15:24 AM »

Basic head at $2200 each? What in the world are you looking at man? You can buy a set of Kaase Boss 9 heads cheaper than that, and they flow over 400 cfm out of the box.

fe66comet · « **Reply #5 on:** June 28, 2014, 07:27:56 AM »

Once you add up tripple springs, TI retainers valves at 129 bucks each it isn't exactly cheap to build a monster Chevy yeah Ford no. But A Hemi is not cheap either, with a good set of heads. A small block aluminum Ford Dart Pro 1 head will rum 1800 each with a good set of valves and springs.

blykins · « **Reply #6 on:** June 28, 2014, 07:31:49 AM »

I made 740 hp @ 6000 rpm with a 529 inch Boss 9 on Jon Kaase's dyno in Georgia, using a small hydraulic roller, and non-exotic parts. When the cubes are there and the heads flow over 400 cfm, it's easy to make hp.

You need to look at a Kaase P-51 head or a TFS head. Titanium valves are not needed....

fe66comet · « **Reply #7 on:** June 28, 2014, 07:43:24 AM »

I was looking at the Edelbrock RPM and was going to go to 580 cubes with a solid roller. I am going to race the car so it will be a little more effort than that. My block is 4.5 max so the meat is there. I just need the potatoes and gravy.

blykins · « **Reply #8 on:** June 28, 2014, 07:48:22 AM »

Edelbrock heads for the 385 series are not high performance heads...

fe66comet · « **Reply #9 on:** June 28, 2014, 08:16:47 AM »

I would get the CJ bare then rework, no head out of the box is really high performance when it comes to a big block Ford. They are just a casting needing everything. I was planning on Manley Stellight valves in stainless, tripple springs, TI locks and retainers. Cromo locators and full race port and polish.

blykins · « **Reply #10 on:** June 28, 2014, 08:40:03 AM »

Cool man, good luck.

Joe-JDC · « **Reply #11 on:** June 28, 2014, 10:35:44 AM »

I tried to stay out of this fray, but on that last statement, I must speak. The Motorsport 429/460 heads with full port and polish, will not reach 400 cfm on the intake without 2.350 valves, and the exhaust will need to be welded up on the floor at exit to get anywhere close to 70% flow of the intake port. Most fully ported Motorsports CJ heads flow in the 370-380cfm range at most. It takes a LOT of work to get more on those heads. The cost factor is not a lot different than TFS when you get through. If you want better heads, then the A-460/TFS style head is much better, and can flow 450+cfm with just a little work. BTDT years ago for a lot of racers around the USA. Kaase, A-460, BT are lots better than Motorsports, or any of the iron Ford heads. This is a FE based forum. Joe-JDC

fe66comet · « **Reply #12 on:** June 28, 2014, 01:31:25 PM »

True statement Joe I was asked and actually I was initially taking about the potential of the aftermarket. FE blocks. The iron block on the pond site they stated a capacity of 600 cubic inches on the iron Siamese bore block. I would rather go that route than ( another ) Ford based block and was simply comparing weight. I personally would not use an iron head on any serious build as it limits compression and I did enough porting of iron heads back in the eighties to last me two lifetimes LOL. I am sure Barry has already covered this ground and I trust his judgment on this.

blykins · « **Reply #13 on:** June 28, 2014, 01:41:42 PM »

Go back and read....

The 600 inch block is supposedly for his compacted graphite block, which hasn't been made yet.

I've used the cast iron block, have another one here, and yet another one on the way for a cammer build. It will support about 530 inches with an off the shelf crankshaft.

fe66comet · « **Reply #14 on:** June 28, 2014, 04:12:25 PM »

Graphite yuck plastic, I hate plastic. I know composite is supposed to be better but after 10 years or so a glock pistol is garbage. I guess if you are going to run the engine for one season filled with epoxy it might be ok but not for me.

bn69stang · « **Reply #15 on:** June 28, 2014, 04:33:17 PM »

Jon what exactly are you try ng to do , a certain cubic inch range , a certain hp range ? ... Bud

fe66comet · « **Reply #16 on:** June 28, 2014, 04:58:01 PM »

Both, the current trend is toward 500 plus crate engines ( GM) and in this are are dominating the street and track. For my Comet I am looking to do something with big cubes and hp with monster torque. I am aware of 4 supercharged 502 Chevy powered cars plus a large assortment of normally asperated ones. How can I possibly compete with that? It would seem beyond the realm of an FE unless you went SOHC and big boost.

bn69stang · « **Reply #17 on:** June 28, 2014, 06:40:59 PM »

Jon i think you re-think that , go all aluminum 482 -500 inch , forged internals and go for 600-650 on motor and give it some spray , say 250 shot of squeeze and have 800 plus on tap when you want it . or feed it some boost .... build a turbo d fe . There is a guy here with an 1100 hp supercharged 502 chevy , he was running his mouth bout fords being slow , and a 393 inch windsor with turbo left him like he was on the brakes in a match race . I loved it , was fun to watch . My long term goal a force feed all aluminum 482 -500 inch its very doable .. Bud

fe66comet · « **Reply #18 on:** June 28, 2014, 07:48:39 PM »

I know Jay is pushing big numbers with his SOHC but he has nearly unlimited resources at his disposal. I would do a Roots from Gary Dyre but I am not big on juice. On the other FE I have going I think I will do the stage 3 port job and let that one be. I would like to proceed. With the Comet now armed with the knollege I have gained about Ford big blocks as my health is failing and I would like to enjoy the vehicle while I still can.

bn69stang · « **Reply #19 on:** June 28, 2014, 08:51:09 PM »

Jon sorry to hear about your health , stay focused on your project and go after your goal and keep us posted , I lost my best friend - brother 2 years ago and it was an eye opener , and i understand budgets lol to many wants not enough money .. Bud

fe66comet · « **Reply #20 on:** June 28, 2014, 09:04:55 PM »

My cars are all I have to mess with it keeps me busy and keeps my mind off things. I have always been a gear head since I was a kid with my errector set LOL

bn69stang · « **Reply #21 on:** June 28, 2014, 09:18:55 PM »

Yep you have to have a hot rod of some sort , i always want more , more hp , more brakes , more gear , more carb .. Bud

chilly460 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 28, 2014, 09:56:34 PM »

Quote from: fe66comet on June 28, 2014, 04:12:25 PM

Graphite yuck plastic, I hate plastic. I know composite is supposed to be better but after 10 years or so a glock pistol is garbage. I guess if you are going to run the engine for one season filled with epoxy it might be ok but not for me.

Parts of this thread have been entertaining, but this is the best.

It's not "plastic", it's Compacted Graphite Iron.

Quick info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compacted_graphite_iron

It's what Ford uses in their diesel blocks, similar to when they used Nodular Iron where high strength was needed.

I won't even touch the statement on Glocks

fe66comet · « **Reply #23 on:** June 28, 2014, 10:11:29 PM »

I am aware of the material used in Diesel blocks. Heavy trucks have been using it for years. Compacted anything is material that is a mix of ground base material and a binding media such as epoxy or urethane that is pressurized into a composite. Unfortunately it deteriates as heat and stress is applied it deforms and stresses. It works as a lightweight alternative but becomes unstable over time.

rockittsled · « **Reply #24 on:** June 29, 2014, 02:59:52 AM »

CGI is still a molten alloy of cast iron that is poured into molds, cooled, then removed from the molds to be machined. The graphite is used to align and modify the crystalline structure of the casting. It is not a sintered metal, nor is it a powdered metal. What the description above sounds like is the quartz countertops being used in lieu of granite in the kitchen

fe66comet · « **Reply #25 on:** June 29, 2014, 03:01:29 PM »

Call me old and set in my ways, I'll stick with good old fashioned iron. I have a friend that is a machinist and sees a lot of semi tractor engines come through as that and forklifts is all he does. We have discussed this in depth before and in his industry the general consensus is the main reason for the change is weight reduction and the metals required such as nickle and other metals are becoming expensive. Weight reduction is a plus but at a cost, graphite is not exactly heat resistant and it does deteriate over time. Of course so does iron but at a much slower rate when expose to elements like UV, heat exposure and solvents.

TomP · « **Reply #26 on:** June 29, 2014, 11:51:07 PM »

A 502 Chevy is a weak dog. Any FE in the 430-460 cube range can handle that. No need for getting a custom block cast to chase those.

fe66comet · « **Reply #27 on:** June 30, 2014, 07:38:31 AM »

I was just thinking that the trend on all sides seems to be bigger is better. Bigger bores, strokes and heads does in any case equate to more HP and torque as long as it is done in a logical way. Hemi and BBC engines work, I have Ford, Chevy and Chrysler engines, they all are good, dependable stuff. For my Comet it gets a Ford, just where to start is the question?

machoneman · « **Reply #28 on:** June 30, 2014, 07:39:16 AM »

It's not what you think. No plastic in cgi.

Try this:

http://web.archive.org/web/20071219013840/http://www.competitiveproduction.com/features/default.aspx?article_id=1388&volume_no=3&issue_no=2

Quote from: fe66comet on June 28, 2014, 04:12:25 PM

Graphite yuck plastic, I hate plastic. I know composite is supposed to be better but after 10 years or so a glock pistol is garbage. I guess if you are going to run the engine for one season filled with epoxy it might be ok but not for me.

fe66comet · « **Reply #29 on:** June 30, 2014, 08:06:49 AM »

I used to buy into the latest and greatest, I have two E85 carburetors but all the E85 gas pumps in the area no longer exist. I read the article and yes it does sound great but I will just stick with good old nodular iron. It is proven, dependable and you can find people to machine it. I see a lot of trends come and go but engines are still made of the same stuff, I remember back in the eighties engines by now were supposed to be made of ceramic with no cooling systems and run at extreme temperatures for efficiency. I haven't seen a ceramic engined flying car yet, but when I do I'll let the neighbors buy it first LOL.

News:

Author Topic: aftermarket blocks? (Read 11303 times)

fe66comet

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Joe-JDC

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TomP

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