FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: bartlett on April 13, 2016, 09:06:04 AM
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Getting ready to pull the trigger on a fitech efi system. I'm looking at the 30008 Meanstreet setup. Lots of reviews and 99% are great. I konw there is some crazy smart efi guy's on this site so I'm looking for some input positive or negative. The carb I have now is slightly to small (750) and only has 2 corner air fuel ajustment and My motor would do better with 4 corner. SO insted of a carb,Im thinking EFI ....
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If you go EFI you'll never go back, IMO. Tunability is awesome; nothing like changing jets or timing with a keyboard. I am not familiar with the Fitech system though...
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As far as high horsepower race type stuff, what's the best efi system's to start looking at ?
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Fitech seems like a nice self learning system .... I like the separate fuel module that consist of a fuel reservoir with internally pressure controlled fuel pump .... basic plumb your current fuel pump (mechanical or electric) to the fuel module , then the module feeds the throttle body rail .... you don't have to redesign your fuel system to install this system .... they were priced real reasonable , don't know if they gone up since the introduction ??
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These were at SEMA and the MSRP was around 75% of the other self-learning TBI manufacturers. I did some searching when we got back from SEMA to see why they were able to do the same thing for cheaper, I couldn't find any reviews. It'd be nice to see someone post up a review on one.
If nothing else, I'm hoping they drive down the cost of the other systems.
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I talked at length with the FI Tech guys just recently. I had my Mustang at the Street Machine Nationals here in Pomona, California, and they had a vendor booth. What really caught my eye was that they had twin throttle bodies on a roots blown '57 Chevy. The first question I asked, of course, was how come the other guys say you can't run the throttle body injection on a roots blower but they can?
The owner of the company said it was just a question of metering and they have map sensors for all applications. OK.
How come your stuff is so much cheaper than the other guys stuff? Really, the owner said, the question is why is the other guys system so expensive...especially since we share so many vendors for our systems. Holley is claiming that they have a $995 system, but so far it's a no-show.
The systems they have are pretty appealing to me, especially the roots dual throttle body set up. We'll see.
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$100 rebate has be thinking about it too.
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/fif-30002
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I've been reading a lot about the FITech systems and that leads me to read about self learning systems in general. There is ALOT more to this then bolting on and being happy. I'll link a great article people newer to efi may find very helpful. Things to remember.... What vacuume the motor makes, cam over lap to name a few.
I have a guy who bought the 1200hp FITech and LOVED it out of the box but had problems that he couldn't work out. He was using a 383 with a big cam. In the end (chased raw voltage power / fuel ) in the end his motor was at like 9" of vacuume.
Now, that guy is all about pretty chrome stuff and to be honest a pain in the a$$ but I'm just making the point there is a little to it. Mild motor with mild cam = awesome easy set up.
SORRY: not sure if I have the link correct: http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/threads/before-you-buy-any-self-learning-efi-system-please-read.25608/
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That is an excellent link, and so, so true! An EFI system that you tune yourself, rather than relying on a cookbook algorithm like those found in the self tuning systems, easily gets around this issue.
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As far as high horsepower race type stuff, what's the best efi system's to start looking at ?
I like Megasquirt. I've used FAST, EMS-Pro, and Megasquirt systems, and the Megasquirt systems are the most versatile and easiest to use, in my opinion. I've heard people say good things about BigStuff 3 systems also, but I think they are quite a bit more expensive than the Megasquirt stuff. I am using an MS3X on my Shelby clone and am upgrading this year to an MS3-Pro for the additional features; also plan to run an MS3-Pro on my turbo engine (whenever I get that one finished...). Also run an MS3X on the high riser in my Mach 1. Couldn't be happier with those systems.
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Heres the first question to ask is does your motor make 10in vacuum if not stay away from self learn system.I have the fast xfi sportsman unit lap top tune able. Do not believe the suppliers if they tell you that their unit works under 10 ins vacume. One side note for you .If you have dual plane manifold change it to a open plenum manifold. If you go with the throttle body unit..fuel distribution issues..lean -rich cyds Heres the one big issue with xfi units you really need to do dyno tune car on rollers$$$$$$$$$$.Then street tune.. To really get them right..So at the end of the day they are bad ass if you can think of it you can do it..By the way look at holly unit dual o2s..If i had to over thats the one i would get in a heart beat.They are like 1k more
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This stuff sounds way cool to me.. I can see where it would truly be the way go.
Once I figure out the rotary phone and how to work a VCR I may just haveta look into it a bit more. :o
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I have been watching these too. They look attractive. I believe Holley is coming out with a competitor soon, Sniper I think its called. I would like something that is self learning but also user customisable. Because I am in Australia my 390 only makes 7" of vacuum......... ;D
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Ya they are why cool.. but not for everyone the plug and play unit IE learning system.Will hands down work better then any carb .I have this on a 477in street deal . I had a pro systems 950 on it before.I had tweaked it the best i could do..At the end of the day i will never run a carb again on the street.There is no comparison IMO....For a old guy 61 getting used to tweaking my car with a lap top instead of a screw driver is a new deal but i got to say its bad ass deal i love it Fyi the fast unit programmable will cost you about 4-5 k with a good return system with pump in tank.. a remote tuner will cost you another 6-700 bucks if they remote tune... its 12-1500.00 to roll it..So beware..
i put a mike jones stick in mine 242-248 at 50 with 112-114 l/c its right at 9-10 in vacume
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The Sniper is already out! I just sent an email to FI and the vacuum issue. We will see... JMHO
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If it has the ability to go open loop at idle, vacuum doesn't matter. Digging around on the site, it looks like it is optional to have it fully programmable, but I will research too. I am looking for something for my 445 in my truck, if I can manipulate it the way I want to, I'll try it
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Wes is getting me a pretty good price on it ,I'm thinking I'm going to give it a go ... Im going to go with the 600hp kit and the fuel pump command center. Ive been told at 600hp the injectors are only at 85% and the kit can support 650hp.
sucks I cant control timing with the ready to run dizzy. (so I'm told)
seems nice to be able to set air fuel target ratios for n2o.
They make a cool dual efi setup also ! ...
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Bob, You can control the timing... Just have to lock it out. This is according to FITech. Hope this helps
Timing Control: Timing Control, or "spark control" as it
is sometimes called, is available on the Go EFI System.
Unlike most systems, an external CDI ignition box is not
required. In fact, the Go System is the only throttle body
EFI with a throttle body mounted ECU that has timing
control without the need for an external CDI box. This is
a savings of at least $200. The advance mechanism of
the distributor used must be locked out. Settings are
available for idle timing, as well as complete timing control
using your Handheld Controller.
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If it has the ability to go open loop at idle, vacuum doesn't matter. Digging around on the site, it looks like it is optional to have it fully programmable, but I will research too. I am looking for something for my 445 in my truck, if I can manipulate it the way I want to, I'll try it
Ross, May want to look at the 30004! Off there web site "Pro Laptop Software , COMPLETE TUNING FOR PROFESSIONAL TUNERS"
http://fitechefi.com/default.asp.pg-GoEFIPowerAdder
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Im told you must use a two wire dizzy for the efi to run timing
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Did you email them Bob? I always go straight to the source to find out. I dont see why you cant!?
http://fitechefi.com/virtualoffice_files/30001.30002%20Instructionsm%2012.9.15.pdf
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If it has the ability to go open loop at idle, vacuum doesn't matter. Digging around on the site, it looks like it is optional to have it fully programmable, but I will research too. I am looking for something for my 445 in my truck, if I can manipulate it the way I want to, I'll try it
I got an email back from them on the Vacuum~
Hi Wes
we have made a good idle with his little is 6 inches of vacuum before.
But you do have to work at it a bit.
Any other questions let me know
--
_THANK'S_
KIRK SPIGER
TECH SUPPORT
FITECH FUEL INJECTION
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Thats statement is very thin..What he is saying it will work but it will not run right..It will most likely idle good and at WOT. Thats it. In between NOT. Take it to the bank.I will go down swing on this one..If you want the real story contact a guy by the name brian massey out of az. Do your homework its a very expensive mistake.Its alot easier to change the cam..The only way to make a efi work in your app is to go with the 100% programmable port injected unit..Big $$$$$$$$...
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Thats statement is very thin..What he is saying it will work but it will not run right..It will most likely idle good and at WOT. Thats it. In between NOT. Take it to the bank.I will go down swing on this one..If you want the real story contact a guy by the name brian massey out of az. Do your homework its a very expensive mistake.Its alot easier to change the cam..The only way to make a efi work in your app is to go with the 100% programmable port injected unit..Big $$$$$$$$...
So I agree with it mostly, but I think idle will be ugly too. Just to be clear, it's not a vacuum issue, it is due to a big cam with a lot of overlap. The vacuum is just what we can see. What really happens at idle and low rpm is that unburnt fuel exits during overlap. The WB O2 sensor sees it as a rich condition, so it leans, but it's a false adjustment because it is measuring overlap not the quality of the burn.
Theoretically, a late intake centerline but a very wide LSA would work just fine even with low vacuum, but nobody cams that way (except modern motors to some extent)
What I do if I have a real wacky one is go open loop at idle and certain load conditions, so it becomes an "electric carb" vice self-adjusting, then once you get out of that area, you can let it d its thing. That being said, I can count on one hand how many I have had to do that way, adjusting injector timing based on cam events helps too
That of course completely supports your idea you need the better programming ability though, I'd consider it a requirement with anything much more than 70 degrees overlap
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Stang 427 Imo i find that most cars that run under 10 ins..Let me be clear here will it work . YES. But will it work as advertised i say no. The O 2 only sees average you dont have a O2 on every cyd.. the thing i see is basically it is a electric carb..That is really the reason a dual plain manifold does not work very well at low speed because the long short runner deal.. It just dumping fuel some rich some lean causing the o2 goes crazy. Now throw in a 250 cam at 50 now the reversion starts most of the time i find it to be at 2000-2500 that is biggest problem area. Most of the time that is were most cars run around on the street. If all i had to worry about is idle and WOT it would be a piece of cake. Hey the other thing is how picky you are.When you do this for a living they have to be in 95-99% perfect.. So will it work yes..Will you have driveibilty issues yes!! IMO
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So why won't these throttle body systems work as well as a carb on dual plane manifolds?
I been running and tuning carbs for years and I just don't see how an EFI can run 2000 bucks better than a good tuned Holley setup.
On my recent dual Holley 600 setup it idles great in the 13.6-13.8 range...excellent highway cruising in the 14 A/F range with 12.8-13.0 at WOT. No surging anywhere and this setup runs smoother than my other single Holley 950 on the Super Vic intake. What more could you want?
Also after 5-10 years of use what happens if and when you have EFI computer failure?
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Stang 427 Imo i find that most cars that run under 10 ins..Let me be clear here will it work . YES. But will it work as advertised i say no. The O 2 only sees average you dont have a O2 on every cyd.. the thing i see is basically it is a electric carb..That is really the reason a dual plain manifold does not work very well at low speed because the long short runner deal.. It just dumping fuel some rich some lean causing the o2 goes crazy. Now throw in a 250 cam at 50 now the reversion starts most of the time i find it to be at 2000-2500 that is biggest problem area. Most of the time that is were most cars run around on the street. If all i had to worry about is idle and WOT it would be a piece of cake. Hey the other thing is how picky you are.When you do this for a living they have to be in 95-99% perfect.. So will it work yes..Will you have driveibilty issues yes!! IMO
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Well I am not sure I know too many people that tune as fussy as I do, but I am glad there are others. Additionally, I'd add that if you are trying to really do something serious, go port injection, that way you can time injection based on valve events and really clean up idle, even with a big cam. Sometimes that means spraying the backside of a closed/hot valve, but usually it's a combination of PW/PD and timing.
The big thing is, I am not disagreeing with you, but I am saying that what you are seeing is not due to low vacuum. It's due to the overlap, you just happen to see low vacuum when the cam is rowdy. The challenge of tuning due to a big cam is not from fuel falling out of suspension, it's not poor cylinder fill, it's the O2 sensor seeing raw fuel mix that came through when both valves were open, and although a cam with a lot of overlap will cause low vacuum, it's the overlap that gives the EFI fits. Additionally, if the engine pushes back that much reversion, that's a cam and port design problem more than an EFI problem and better to fix the real issue
In the end though, do what you have had success with. I think we are saying the same thing...if you want to do it right for a big cam, you need to be able to get into the system to program it.
I have had great luck with big street cams and EFI, and those that get real big cams and slow ports, can still run well, but you need to look at open loop tuning when you can't get the system to react the way you want. I don't like open loop tuning, and I do all I can to not do that, but if done right it works great and you can't even feel the transition to closed loop
FWIW, I have done a few Powerjections too, crappy cheap system and not very intuitive, but they are fully laptop programmable and can log right out of the box. I don't recommend the system because they don't seem to be too well made and have very little real support, but they are very adjustable. My own car is a MAF SEFI system based off a Massflo/A9L Ford system, but has a Quarterhorse chip that allows me to log both dual NB O2s and a wideband O2 as well as any other parameter in the ECM and really dig into any parameter I want. I like the system, but you need to run a MAF and they can be a bit of a pain for packaging on an early car.
I haven't decided if I will try the FiTECH on my 445 F100, but if I do, even with a lot of vacuum, I think I would prefer the programmable version over the plug and play handheld.
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So why won't these throttle body systems work as well as a carb on dual plane manifolds?
I been running and tuning carbs for years and I just don't see how an EFI can run 2000 bucks better than a good tuned Holley setup.
On my recent dual Holley 600 setup it idles great in the 13.6-13.8 range...excellent highway cruising in the 14 A/F range with 12.8-13.0 at WOT. No surging anywhere and this setup runs smoother than my other single Holley 950 on the Super Vic intake. What more could you want?
Also after 5-10 years of use what happens if and when you have EFI computer failure?
Well, it depends what you call running well.
My 489 FE for instance. I reach in the window and turn the key, it immediately fires and goes to fast idle, as temp comes up it steps down automatically. If I drive away, ice cold or not, no bog, no burp, no nothing and no thinking about a choke. If I turn on the A/C, it adds idle for me and idles happily at 1000 where it needed 1250 RPM with the 1000 Holley
Once hot, the Holley ran great, but the EFI fuel system runs at 49 psi and won't vapor lock. If I want to try a new ignition curve, play with the mixture, or you name it, I rename the file and if I don't like it, I pull over and reset it to the old file.
That being said, I love tuning Holleys, and my Holley ran great on this motor, but it just runs better on the street with EFI. Going from a 489 FE with an RPM and a vac sec 1000 to the same engine with the EFI and a ported Victor, the EFI Victor has more torque, pulls higher, and gets much better mileage
However, the truck is a blast too with a worked 3310 and the RPM off the 489 and will have a 4781 double pumper on it soon, and likely eventually EFI, so it's all good, but honestly, for the street EFI is a blast if done right
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So why won't these throttle body systems work as well as a carb on dual plane manifolds?
I been running and tuning carbs for years and I just don't see how an EFI can run 2000 bucks better than a good tuned Holley setup.
On my recent dual Holley 600 setup it idles great in the 13.6-13.8 range...excellent highway cruising in the 14 A/F range with 12.8-13.0 at WOT. No surging anywhere and this setup runs smoother than my other single Holley 950 on the Super Vic intake. What more could you want?
Also after 5-10 years of use what happens if and when you have EFI computer failure?
To begin with, I'm not sure that the EFI systems don't work as well on dual plane intakes as a carb, at least on some engines. But I can see some potential problems. The EFI systems that tune themselves rely on a feedback circuit to adjust the fuel delivery. A dual plane intake may be able to "fool" the feedback circuit, just like overlap from a big cam can as Ross described above. A Holley carb, of course, doesn't check the A/F ratio in the exhaust and adjust itself accordingly, so it doesn't have the same type of feedback circuit that the EFI systems do.
I have to admit though that I'm also a little baffled in all the interest in these self-tuning EFI systems. To me the big advantage of EFI comes with the individual port injection systems that also control timing. On the engines I build, I can run big cams and compression, and use the EFI setup to make them idle down and run well at highway speeds, plus perform at the track. Last year at Drag Week I ran the same EFI program all the time, on the street and at the track, with different fuels, tuned for different RPM ranges. With a carb setup on a 1000 HP engine it would be pretty tough just swap fuels and drive down the road, then swap fuel again and race at the track. You'd be changing jets and timing for the swap, and based on my experience the engine wouldn't run anywhere near as well on the street as the EFI engine. By the way, the EFI system I run can be a self tuning system, but you can turn that feature off and just put in all the numbers yourself after experimenting with the engine in the car, which is what I do. I just monitor and log the A/F data, but it doesn't affect the program in the EFI box.
As far as failures go, I've had multiple EFI systems over the last 8 years and never experienced a failure. I have had my share of problems getting the crank sensors to work correctly on the 36 tooth crank wheels, but I think I've got that worked out now; no issues since 2012. My guess is you'll be rebuilding your carb a lot sooner than I have to mess with my EFI system...
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My guess is you'll be rebuilding your carb a lot sooner than I have to mess with my EFI system...
I don't know about that. Over 20 years on my Holley 750 in my '68 Highboy before it developed issues due to warping (rebuilt it and it's now on my '70), original 4100 on my Wifes '65 Galaxie (never been touched), 15 years on my BJ/BK's in my Mach 1, zero issues. Original untouched 1bbl on my '63 Comet, ran great when I parked it. I could give 20 similar examples on Falcons and Comets I've owned over the years. My Dads '50 has the original carb on the flathead 6, untouched, runs great after 66 years. '37 Coupe going on 30 years since rebuild, zero issues on original flathead carb. I could go on and on.
I always use a bit of cleaner and stabilizer before winter storage. 35 years of driving and I have never been stranded because of a carb. I can't say that about FI cars I've owned (all newer).
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I have to admit though that I'm also a little baffled in all the interest in these self-tuning EFI systems.
I purchased a Quick Fuel system for the 418 FE in my convertible Fairlane. I went this direction in hopes that the car would be easy to tune, stable idle, well managed cold start behavior, and reasonable mileage. I know these goals can be reached with enough tuning on a carb, but I'd much rather tune from the laptop than try to get the electric choke to behave like I want it to. Should have the engine running in the next several weeks; can report back if I achieved what I was planning on.
Also, the Quick Fuel system manages the timing through a locked out Duraspark, but it doesn't integrate the timing into the overall map (as far as I can tell). You specify initial timing, full advance, and the RPM to reach full advance. The ECU draws a straight line and provides the timing based only on RPM.
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This is a reply to jay..Its easy as to why the interest in self tuning Efi. Its a great replace to a carb in todays world with fuel issues. As for my own car i had a highly tuned pro-systems 950 carb..With the Efi i gain about 1 to 1.5 mpg..Cold start running .no comparison.. From idle to WOT. All areas better IMO..The throttle response is off the charts..Anyway back to jay it money a true Efi system will set you back a few $$$..If you do the full on holley unit with a return system and gas tank for Efi it will set you back 5-6 k The manifold injectors and wiring harness then you need the throttle body. Not sure about exact numbers about 1800.00 if i remember right . Over the XFI system...
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I don't know, I added up the cost of a Megasquirt 2, wiring harness, the sensors, Ford Performance injectors, injector bungs, fuel rails, and a Holley 4150 EFI throttle body and came up with $1300. Summit lists the Fitech system for $1200, if I'm looking at the right one, and the FAST system is $2000+. Sure, with the Megasquirt setup you have to get the bungs welded into the intake, machine the fuel rails, and do some wiring. But that's just hot rodding. The Megasquirt system is infinitely tunable, plus its a direct port system. Seems like a much better way to go to me.
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Imo the Megasquirt may be a way better system but the normal human has ZERO idea how to make this system work or what he needs. Ive tried to research it and just keep going in circles. Imo if they want to sell units they need to package the system more user friendly.
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It's interesting that you brought that up, I've actually thought about putting together a complete FE-friendly EFI package. One problem is that there are so many different ways to do it, with different distributor or distributorless systems, different intake manifolds and throttle bodies, etc. I've talked to the people at DYI auto tune and they can build a custom wiring harness for a specific engine, so it would be possible to get an FE-specific wiring harness; that way everything would just plug together. Then, an FE-specific program pre-loaded into the EFI box would be all that would be required, which would actually be pretty easy. Something to think about...
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Interested in what you have in mind for a EFI FE system. I have an EFI Victor 4150 intake already hanging on the wall, and have a rowdy 465 that I'd like to introduce to fuel injection. Edelbrock sells the fuel rails for this intake, and throttle bodies and injectors are readily available; what else would I need to complete the installation?
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I've talked to the people at DYI auto tune and they can build a custom wiring harness for a specific engine, so it would be possible to get an FE-specific wiring harness; that way everything would just plug together. Then, an FE-specific program pre-loaded into the EFI box would be all that would be required, which would actually be pretty easy. Something to think about...
Hmm, indeed would be something to think about for a certain '66 mustang being built.
Wires scare me. ;)
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Imo the Megasquirt may be a way better system but the normal human has ZERO idea how to make this system work or what he needs. Ive tried to research it and just keep going in circles. Imo if they want to sell units they need to package the system more user friendly.
Agreed. This is where the other "bolt-on" out of the box EFI units like Atomic EFI, FiTech, etc are making at least the initial implementation easier and more user friendly. Jay mentioned above that adding up all the parts is around $1200...but which parts? Even a simple PDF/web-page that had "recipes" for which components mate well with which other components and the associated part numbers for each would be a big help for me. I'm not scared at all of wiring and plumbing things together, but knowing which parts I need I'm more at a loss on. Kind of like how there are recipes in Jays book for various engines with dyno numbers showing how they do. Perhaps something similar that would at least get you in the ball park for your EFI swap based on which engine it's going on.
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You guys have forced me to think all this through LOL! I'm putting together a list that I'll post here sometime in the next day or so, that will hopefully make things clearer...
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Wow, that is a great idea Jay. Have no idea though how well that system would sell however.
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Thanks Jay, I was considering a TB kit for my 445, but mostly because I never really knew the MS stuff was affordable and/or how to purchase. Appreciate you doing some leg work, I'd much prefer to go that way if the cost really is that competitive.
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I'm in the same boat. I am about to upgrade the fuel system in my Galaxie with the thought of possibly one day going to EFI. I had looked into the complete package TB systems, but agree that a port injection tuneable system would be best. Just not sure what is needed. An idiots recipe and guide would be great.
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Wounder why no one looks into the Accel DFI!? That seams like a killer system as well.... Its self learning but you can custom tune it. Doesn't matter if its turbo, blow'n and so on. Should check that out as well
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I'm in the same boat. I am about to upgrade the fuel system in my Galaxie with the thought of possibly one day going to EFI. I had looked into the complete package TB systems, but agree that a port injection tuneable system would be best. Just not sure what is needed. An idiots recipe and guide would be great.
X2
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Wounder why no one looks into the Accel DFI!? That seams like a killer system as well.... Its self learning but you can custom tune it. Doesn't matter if its turbo, blow'n and so on. Should check that out as well
I took a look at it but IIRC it was pretty pricey.
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You guys have forced me to think all this through LOL! I'm putting together a list that I'll post here sometime in the next day or so, that will hopefully make things clearer...
Great! Looking forward to what you think it would take to install a sequential EFI on a Victor intake. The FAST options seem to address port injection but only offer bank-fire rather than real sequential.
Just finishing the install of a Quick Fuel QFI-500 system on my 418FE.
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So, this tends to look kind of complicated, especially when all the options are considered. What I've put together in this post is two EFI systems, a "Street" version (inexpensive) and a "Race" version (expensive). The race version is essentially identical to what is on my 585" SOHC. We'll look at the street version first.
The street system assumes the use of a factory or MSD electronic distributor, and a coil (with or without MSD) to generate spark. It is also assumed to be a bank or batch fire system, not full sequential. Below is a basic wiring diagram for one of these systems. It is also shown on page 14 of the manual at this link: http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/MS2V357_Hardware-3.4.pdf
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Megasquirt 2 Wiring Diagram.jpg)
On this diagram, the connector shown with all the wires plugs into the Megasquirt 2 EFI box. This is set up as a bank-fire system; the fuel injectors are arranged in two banks, one of which fires once per crankshaft rotation. For our engines we would wire up four injectors for bank 1, and four for bank 2. There are only three external sensors required, the air temperature sensor, coolant temperature sensor, and throttle position sensor. A MAP sensor (Manifold Air Pressure) is also required, but it is built into the Megasquirt 2 EFI box; you just have to run a vacuum line from the engine to the EFI box. The PWM idle valve shown on the drawing can be ignored; you can just use the idle screw on the throttle body to set the idle. Also, a wideband O2 sensor is shown connected to the Megasquirt 2 EFI box, but this only has to be connected if you are logging data from the O2 sensor, or using the O2 sensor to provide feedback to the Megasquirt, so that the Megasquirt can try to adjust the fuel delivery to maintain a particular air/fuel ratio.
Here is a table showing the part requirements for this system, including links to all the required parts:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/StreetEFI.jpg)
Couple of notes here. The wiring harness has to be assembled by the builder; this is just soldering the right wires to the right connectors. Just follow the schematic. The ignition system is assumed to be a stock Ford or MSD vane type distributor, with a coil. MSDs can also be triggered this way. The distributor wires connect into the crank sensor wires shown on the wiring diagram. The fuel rails shown in the list are Edelbrock parts designed to fit a Victor EFI manifold. The throttle body comes with the throttle position sensor, so you just have to connect the three wires from the EFI box to the connector on the throttle body. The air temperature sensor should mount in the air cleaner, or some other place where the air comes into the engine, but not under the throttle body. The coolant temperature sensor has to mount in a coolant passage, just like a sensor for a water temp gauge. Finally, the software to make this work is a free download called Tuner Studio and Mega-log viewer. The EFI system will log all the data it collects, and the software allows you to view the logs on a laptop computer, plus make changes to the programming of the EFI system to richen or lean the mixture, change the timing, adjust accelerator pump shot, etc. etc.
In addition to this, a couple relays and some fuses are required for proper system operation. See the wiring diagram.
Parts for the race system are shown below. This is a full sequential, distributorless system, using a crank trigger and a cam sensor, a 36-1 tooth wheel for the crank sensor, and individual coil packs for each cylinder. No distributor or MSD is required, but if you are running a factory oil pump you would have to use a partial distributor to fill the hole in the intake and drive the pump.
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/RaceEFI.jpg)
Some notes on this system: the crank and cam sensors are magnetic sensors; they work by looking for a steel or iron tooth on a gear wheel, or some other protruding steel or iron feature. The crank sensor requires a 36-1 wheel on the crank. This is a steel wheel with 36 teeth, one for each 10 degrees, except that one tooth is missing (hence 36-1). Lots of Ford vehicles have come with them so they are plentiful in the junkyards and on ebay, but they would have to be adapted to the FE. I ended up machining my own version. The cam sensor can be put through the timing cover of the FE, and a bolt can be screwed into the top gear at the right spot, so that the cam sensor detects the bolt head as it goes by. The cam sensor tells the EFI system that the next time a TDC of #1 occurs, it is on the firing stroke. This is required for full sequential fuel injection. The MS3-Pro drives the coils directly, based on the inputs from the cam and crank sensors.
More info later...
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Just finishing the install of a Quick Fuel QFI-500 system on my 418FE.
Looks great David! Are the rad. hoses silicone? Where could I find those and how well does the bottom one fit?
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LOL
Could you possibly make it any easier for us Jay ;D ;D ;D
BTW Thank you
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Just finishing the install of a Quick Fuel QFI-500 system on my 418FE.
Looks great David! Are the rad. hoses silicone? Where could I find those and how well does the bottom one fit?
Yes, silicone hoses. Top fits well, I had to use the belt sander on the PRW pump lower outlet to fit the bottom. Seem to fit car with no issues.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271999458741?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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Jay - on the sequential fuel injection, would a dual-sync distributor work in place of the eight separate coils and the 36-1 wheel?
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Yes it would David. You could also upgrade the street system to an MS3-Pro or MS3X EFI box, go to the dual sync distributor, and then everything else is the same for a full sequential system. That's one of the things that makes it hard to explain these systems, there are so many options; you can mix and match so much different stuff.
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Yes, silicone hoses. Top fits well, I had to use the belt sander on the PRW pump lower outlet to fit the bottom. Seem to fit car with no issues.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271999458741?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Thanks for the link. I snatched the last one they had. ;D
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Here's a little more on this. The Innovate Motorsports O2 sensor setup is probably the most cost effective one on the market right now, at least as far as I know. $189 including the electronics, wideband Bosch O2 sensors, and peripherals. The output of this sensor and controller will plug right into the Megasquirt EFI boxes, and also can drive a gauge in the car; gauges are also sold on the Innovate Motorsports web site. Link to the O2 sensor information is below:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc2.php
Regarding the software on these systems, you basically open up Tuner Studio and fill in some basic forms that tells the EFI system what to expect from the ignition system you are using, the size of the engine, the size of the fuel injectors, etc. Once you start the engine, you can run it through various tuning conditions while logging the data from the O2 sensor, and make adjustments to the tuning maps for fuel and timing based on what the data logs say. For example, let's say you just start the engine and idle it at 1000 RPM. On the VE map, which is where you adjust the fuel that the injectors deliver, there will be a highlighted square that shows where on the map the engine is currently operating. Looking at the O2 sensor output, let's say it says 12.0:1. You are targeting 14.7:1, so at 12:1 the engine is running rich. You click on the square that is highlighted and decrease the number in that box. As you do so, the O2 sensor starts reading leaner. You just keep decreasing the number until you get the O2 sensor reading to 14.7 or so, and then you are tuned at that idle setting.
One thing though is that for a higher performance engine, where you have a big cam with a lot of overlap or something like that, the engine may want to run a lot richer. So, as you start moving the number in the box around, you can listen to the motor. If it starts to struggle or idle more roughly at the higher A/F numbers, you just bring it back into a range where it is running well. I've had idle A/Fs of 12 or 12.5 be the best ones for some of the engines I've run on EFI. This is where a completely tunable EFI system, where you build the VE map yourself, has an advantage over the self learning ones. The self learning systems are always targeting a specific A/F number, which may not be right for your engine. With a completely programmable system like the Megasquirt, you can account for the variations caused by low vacuum at idle, wild cams, etc. Plus if you lock the advance out of your distributor, you can totally control the ignition advance at any engine speed or vacuum level. When you look at the timing with a timing light it will be rock solid when the EFI box controls the timing, not bouncing back and forth a few degrees like you often see with a centrifugally advanced distributor. These characteristics make it easier to get big cams to idle down and behave on the street, while still maintaining top end performance.
I have an MS3-Pro setup on the shelf that I will be installing on my dyno sometime in the near future. When I do it I will go through a step by step tutorial of exactly how to hook everything up, to try to make this easier to understand. I hope some of this is helpful for you guys interested in EFI - Jay
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Really cool of you to explain this stuff.
I figure I'm prolly not the only guy out here that thought this stuff was voodoo.
Thanks again.
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thank you
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Really cool of you to explain this stuff.
I figure I'm prolly not the only guy out here that thought this stuff was voodoo.
Thanks again.
It is not that hard. If you have a laptop, you can do EFI.
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Jay,
Thanks for putting the lists together. I've always wanted fuel injection on a 2x4 manifold, and it could be doable in a price range I can afford. Not sure which manifold would be best, but a plan has to start somewhere, right?
Did anyone else notice the cheapest parts listed had a GM part number? ???
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Another thanks to Jay for putting these together. I could see this last page as a sticky on a new child forum for EFI install / tuning would be quite a good resource that folks could contribute and learn from. :)
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Jay - thanks for getting the juices flowing on this topic.
So planning a conversion on my 465 FE that has BP pro-ports, 254/260 solid roller, 11:0 CR, TKO600; I have an Edelbrock Victor intake and Accel dual-sync dizzy; does the parts list seem complete for implementing a full sequential system in place of the existing HP1000 carb? Does the O2 sensor stay in the system providing continuous tuning inputs or do you use it to establish the fuel map and then take it off? Is there a benefit to running an O2 sensor in each header collector?
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The dual sync Accel distributor has a crank signal output and a cam signal output, right? Assuming that is the case, then you've got everything you need for a full sequential system. (Note to others: You need to go to an MS3X or MS3-Pro, rather than an MS2, for the full sequential version.)
By the way, just a quick aside on full sequential versus batch fire or bank fire. I have noticed almost no difference in how engines using these different methods run and idle. There just doesn't seem to be a big difference there. One potential advantage with the full sequential is that you can tune the timing of the fuel injector squirt to optimize power output or idle charactersitics of each cylinder. But that is really, really fine tuning the engine. I tried that on my SOHC and didn't see more than a few HP difference despite varying this all over the place. On most engines I think full sequential is not really necessary.
You can use the O2 sensor in one of two ways. The way I do it is called open loop mode, and to do this you run the engine, log the O2 sensor data at different points on the VE map, and then adjust the VE map manually to try to get the A/F ratio where you want it. The second way is called feedback or closed loop mode. In the software for the EFI box there is also a Target A/F ratio table. You can fill this table in with whatever ratios you want. For example, you might fill in most of the table with 14.7, which is the idea stoichiometric A/F ratio for most driving on stockish engines, and then fill in the part of the table where you have wide open throttle with a richer number like 13.0:1. Then, if you enable feedback from the O2 sensor, the EFI box will read the O2 sensor output and the actual A/F reading, and adjust the fuel injector pulse to try to match the value in the Target A/F ratio table.
The problem with closed loop mode is that, as Ross mentioned earlier in the thread, a big cam can fool the O2 sensor into thinking you are leaner or richer than you actually are at less than full throttle. With your cam, I think running closed loop would be a mistake. You could run it just at full throttle, and that would work well, but at idle and partial throttle openings it is not going to give you the right tune. Its not that hard to tune with open loop, so I think I'd go that route if I were you.
Regarding one or two O2 sensors, I usually run 2 just to see if there are differences bank to bank on the engine. Usually there aren't. Also I'm pretty sure that the EFI box is set up to go closed loop with only one sensor, and special electronics are required to use more than one. My friend Scott Clark has an 8 O2 sensor setup, where all the sensor outputs are put on a CAN bus that communicates with the MS3, and each O2 sensor controls its associated fuel injector in closed loop mode. Basically, it individually tunes each cylinder in real time during the dyno tune or dragstrip run. Lots of wires, but the result is really cool...
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The dual sync Accel distributor has a crank signal output and a cam signal output, right?
Correct, the Accel dizzy has a cam signal output as well as a crank signal output. Reading the MS3 Pro manual, it has SO MANY functions; even providing a PWM signal to a solid-state relay to control cooling fan speed.
So if there's very little benefit in the sequential over bank-fire, is there a benefit using port injection over the throttle body injection?
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There's a big benefit to port injection, because you are shooting equal amounts of fuel to each cylinder. With a TBI system the fuel is distributed by the intake manifold, which can easily not be equal from cylinder to cylinder.
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Hi Jay,
Are you familiar with cross ram fuel injection systems from Morrison Oz? They have one for the 351 Cleveland. What are your thoughts on using that with a sequential injection system (I already have the intake adapter)? I tried to attach a picture, hopefully it works. It would be for a 482, with a max 6000 RPM.
Dan
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There's a big benefit to port injection, because you are shooting equal amounts of fuel to each cylinder. With a TBI system the fuel is distributed by the intake manifold, which can easily not be equal from cylinder to cylinder.
I see what you mean. Thanks again for your insight and sharing your experience. Looks like I need to keep collecting parts and getting this EFI going.
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Jay, why don't you like the IAT sensor under the throttle body?
I run mine through the side of the Victor well under the TB, and all Mopar small blocks ran them in the manifold. I have actually found very little difference in the logged temps there, versus out in the air cleaner once the engine is running.
BTW thanks for the parts list, I may try the MS on my 445 just for fun. Matter of fact, I am almost certain I will
FYI, for those considering closed loop with a big cam, it is doable, especially if you are able to limit the correction for the self learning and manipulate injector timing. In fact, part of my prep for a new EEC-IV tune is to plug in cam events, with proper injector timing and pulse width, you can clean up things quite a bit.
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Ross, I've been told that the Inlet Air Temperature sensors heat up when installed under the throttle plates, and that throws off the tune when the engine is hot. Probably not a big deal under WOT conditions, but at idle in traffic it can cause a problem. So, I've just always run them in the air cleaner or somewhere else above the throttle body. I suppose if you tune for it, it may not matter. The other issue to consider is that some of the IAT sensors have an open element, and I'm not sure you'd want to expose that to fuel; see the link below.
https://www.diyautotune.com/product/gm-open-element-iat-sensor-with-connector/
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Hi Jay,
Are you familiar with cross ram fuel injection systems from Morrison Oz? They have one for the 351 Cleveland. What are your thoughts on using that with a sequential injection system (I already have the intake adapter)? I tried to attach a picture, hopefully it works. It would be for a 482, with a max 6000 RPM.
Dan
That looks like a cool setup. How big are the throttle butterflies on that? My only concern would be that they would be too small for a strong FE. Bear in mind that with an individual runner intake, you need about 6 times the cfm that you need with a plenum type intake, so the throttle butterflies and runners need to be large enough to support that. The Hilborn IR setup that I've run on my SOHCs has 2-7/16" throttle butterflies, and they start restricting power over 800 HP, based on my dyno tests. I think I would consider 2" throttle butterflies and equivalent runners a bare minimum for a 650 HP FE.
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That's always been the worst part of an Algon setup, the throttle bores aren't very big- runs real well on a nice hot rod engine, but won't feed a next-level bullet. My magnesium Kinsler 351C sprint car injectors should be a different story- I figure if they could feed a 9500 rpm 410 Cleveland, they should do OK on a 7500 rpm 505 FE :P
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Hi Jay,
Are you familiar with cross ram fuel injection systems from Morrison Oz? They have one for the 351 Cleveland. What are your thoughts on using that with a sequential injection system (I already have the intake adapter)? I tried to attach a picture, hopefully it works. It would be for a 482, with a max 6000 RPM.
Dan
That looks like a cool setup. How big are the throttle butterflies on that? My only concern would be that they would be too small for a strong FE. Bear in mind that with an individual runner intake, you need about 6 times the cfm that you need with a plenum type intake, so the throttle butterflies and runners need to be large enough to support that. The Hilborn IR setup that I've run on my SOHCs has 2-7/16" throttle butterflies, and they start restricting power over 800 HP, based on my dyno tests. I think I would consider 2" throttle butterflies and equivalent runners a bare minimum for a 650 HP FE.
I checked with Morrison, they said the throttle sizes run from 48 to 56 mm, which is like 2-1/4". Would that likely be enough? Also, if I were to do a system like that, would I be better to go sequential injection as opposed to batch?
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Jay , is there anywhere you can sticky your FI parts list ??
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I checked with Morrison, they said the throttle sizes run from 48 to 56 mm, which is like 2-1/4". Would that likely be enough? Also, if I were to do a system like that, would I be better to go sequential injection as opposed to batch?
I'd go with the biggest throttle bore size, that should be enough for a strong engine. And I think that with an IR setup like that, you probably would be better off going full sequential.
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Jay , is there anywhere you can sticky your FI parts list ??
I really don't want to sticky it; sometimes those stickys kind of take over the first page of a forum, so I try to avoid them. But you should be able to right click on the picture, and download it.
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If I was to go EFI it would most likely be the FiTech for it's simplicity of install including the fuel system and ease of swapping back to carb if there were an issue with the FiTech unit.
Better than a carb if you want to drive in cold weather and or don't really understand or want to tune carbs for best performance.
In my case is it worth 2100 bucks more over what I have which is a pair of nicely tuned Holley 600's..not likely.
But then it really depends on how much 2100 bucks is worth to you vs. available funds to spend on your hot rod.
Just saw an episode of Engine Power TV where they tested the large single quad version of the FiTech on a 511 Mopar wedge build. They were very happy with results at 617 HP and 630 Torque. Then they swapped on the tuned 950 Holley carb and got
637 HP and 640 Torque.
So end result the FiTech is an easy setup to get going for great general street performance with a good tuned carb for serious track and street performance for those willing to tune it.
Off the shelf carb bolt on would most likely not perform as well as the bolt on FiTech.
Most carb issues have to do with off idle and cruise performance which is where you are most of the time.
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There are a few guys on Facebook that love the Fitech. I have been watching there too.
I will add though, always think about where you'll pick up water temp and air intake temp, regardless of the system you use, especially water. FEs, and Fords in general, do not have the zillion access points to water that a Chebby has, easy to fix with a welded in bung or some other access to pre-thermostat water, but tougher when the intake is already on.
I am modifying my RPM right now for a second water bung, even though I will run a carb for a while and haven't decided if I will use TBI or go SEFI like the Mustang. In the end though, drilling a hole and welding a bung while it is off is far easier than pulling it down again :)
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When we decided to install a 427 TP engine in Brother Lon's then-new '67 Mustang, a test engine's pieces (from the GT40 program) were made available through contacts at 'Triple E'. We got all the upper half of the engine, to include the heads, complete, the dual-plane manifold, and the pair of 652 center-squirter Holleys. We didn't get the carb linkage and sourced it from 'he who isn't mentioned here'. (hwimh screwed us so that's the reason for my own antipathy toward him.)
That combination was probably as scienced-out as carbs get, since the necessity at LeMans is to go flat-out down the Mulsanne straight and a little further on to creep around Arnage. They say that at Arnage you'd be going at about 15-20 MPH and AJ Foyt has claimed to have hit 240 before lifting on the Mulsanne.
In its later iterations, we tried a whole host of carb sizes on Lon's 427 Mustang. And, ultimately, with the help of the then-new Fuel Injection Group at Holley, we installed and tuned a pair of the then-new 9000-series TBI units. I wrote about the experience in several different magazines including Super Ford and Mustang and Fords.
We did testing on the half-mile track at T&C Livonia using an accelerometer to check on improvements. The end result was to have seamless street manners and to have cut almost two seconds off the track time.
As Jay said, "...you'll never go back."
KS
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As Jay said, "...you'll never go back."
KS
Indeed, only reason I don't have a completed picture of the SEFI in my Mustang is because I have no reason to open the hood anymore :)
Oil stays spotless, plugs look new after years and years, no percolation, no vapor lock...just drive
It's funny how annoying a hand choke is on the F100 now. I drove it since 1984 and it never bothered me, but the EFI on the Mustang spoiled me!
(http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd329/My427stang/RailsandTB-1.jpg)
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Well I pulled the trigger and ordered the fitech efi ... I will post some pictures and results as I get it installed ...
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Installed an fitech system on Monday. Did not to run well on Tuesday (actually first day of driving) didn't want to start unless you hit accelerator, seemed like it was loading up on upshifts and idle was erratic. Wednesday morning, system fired right up and adjusted idle a little then settled in. Upshift were smoother but seemed a little off. Changed cam setting to wild (#4) and everything settled in. So at that point I put my foot in it. Very, very nice. The only problem was that the system seemed to hang on returning to idle. Finally called them and they answered on first ring. Explained my plight and he showed me how to adjust IAC step down so now I am impressed. Asked him about cam selection and he agreed that I should use #4 setting as I only have 7 in. Of vacuum. Stated that is the main reason that selection is there. Also about driveability their system is divided into three main settings. Idle, cruise and WOT AND those are individually adjustable under the PRO SECTION of their menus. As I learn more about system I may get into that. I have to say that overall it is an excellent system and the learning system does work as it runs. My 445 with a .600 in can is happy. Granted I took off my 750 holley that was running fat due to the fact that I had not tuned for WOT YET. nice product and customer service was great (considering they answered). GT
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Sounds good!
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That's great news for us guys with only 7"! ;D How's the tip in? Be interested in the plugs after a bit of running too. Please keep us appraised of its performance over the coming weeks.
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That's great news for us guys with only 7"! ;D How's the tip in? Be interested in the plugs after a bit of running too. Please keep us appraised of its performance over the coming weeks.
Overall tip-in is acceptable. Is not lean but seems to go to rich side momentarily. I have not logged anything yet and really haven't plugged the monitor in while driving. Today I hooked up the fan circuit to it. I have a dual spal setup and just hooked up (what they call) fan 1 circuit. Fan 2 I will do this winter when I rewire the fans for it. It will also control the timing advance and I may do that a little later on. Presently I am satisfied with the petronix I setup and currently running 13 * plus 12* in distributor for a total of 37*. A little steep but I have a gas mix in it at the moment. I am wanting to put it on a dyno before i start changing stuff, so that is next! GT
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Which system did you get?
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I got the 600hp kit. I have a big solid cam and very little vac. I also plan to setup timing and use it with my n2o setup.
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Which system did you get?
EFI 4 POWER ADDER w/ command center.
The command center is not necessary but I liked the idea of a sump with pump built in to keep it cooler.
The power adder series gives the ability to control both fans individually and really (for me) was the decision point. I am not planning on running nitrious but it could. GT
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I have mine up and running ...it takes a little bit of tinkering to get them setup for bigger motors. I have about 30 miles on mine and its running pretty dang good ...
you can tell the hp is up and the throttle response is insane.. you hammer it,its right there right now ...
p.s.....The price alone of just reaching in and turning the key is amazing !... half a crank and its up and purring ..
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I will be watching this thread very closely. I have been planning for EFI for several years...yes, seriously. I just never felt comfortable with the systems that were available and really have too much going on in my life to deal with days of tuning or fabricating.
I already have a Victor EFI Dominator on the motor. Currently running my 950DP and have aluminum square tubing bolted into place where the fuel rails would be, holding tapered rubber plugs into each injector port. Have the Edelbrock fuel rails too...somewhere.
I like the fuel delivery concept that FiTech uses. It handles the return vs. returnless dilemma nicely.
I've been in contact with FiTech and they claim a port injection setup is coming (this was a couple months ago). I also have a Pontiac with tri-power, currently running as a 2V with the outer carbs mounted with blockoff plates because of inherent Rochester crapiness. They are also working on a 2V version that had my interest that may be out already. I've seen computer generated images on their sight in the past. Also interested in the 2V for my daughter's '70 F100.
I'll have my ear open as this discussion develops further. Also interested in the list you put together Jay. As an engineer, I'm not afraid to tune, but it can't become a second career.
Jim
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The price alone of just reaching in and turning the key is amazing !... half a crank and its up and purring ..
How was the starting before? Mine is always a bitch when hot and left for a bit.
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I had the choke removed so first cold starts where the 5 pump and feather the gas for the first min to get it to smooth out. (no big deal) hot starts always had me worried. you never knew what you would get. sometimes it would fire right off and sometimes it would crank and not fire off so you had to open the gas a little and it would fire off. this would be a 10 second crank up .... My worry was when hot I didnt have much ooops cranking time. My batt would only start the car like that maybe 4-5 times and be done... So you didnt want to flood it or make any mistakes starting it. Me this wasnt a big deal I new the car and how to start it. My wife wants to drive it and I always had to be with and coach her. Now I wont have that worry.
So far the fitech seems real nice. Granted its not as Self learning hands off as I thought it might be. And or it might be and it has not learned yet. running it runs great ! I have made only a couple of tweeks and it does run great ! ...
starting is my only tweek I need to make now. Hot it fires up right away if I just turn the key right to start. If I wait for the prime cycle it fires right away but rpms are slightly slower and it has to run a second to smooth out. ( I can turn down the hot prime and clear this up)
Just did my first 100% cold start and it cranked longer than I wanted. It did fire up and idle great. Im going to add fuel to the cold prime start to get it firing up quicker. So yea you can see there are tweeks to do. The best part is it is VERY simple to do and only takes a second ! the tuner screen is easy to read and very simple to understand. Its also nice it has data logging.
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Think I am jealous That sounds cool. Mine sounds the same when hot soaked. Cold is easy, a few pumps and keep it running with the throttle for a little bit. Immediate restart when hot it fires straight away. Let it sit for 15min plus and it can take up to probably 7ish seconds to fire while holding a little throttle. Always done this with multiple different carbs and initial settings. Annoys me.
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Yep that's why I upgraded! Afterwork I tinkered with the cold prim and hot prime. Unreal how nice it starts now. Click-vroooom.....
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Ok boys time for an update. How's it all going?
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^^^ What he said! I've been following the thread as well as one of these setups should be a snap on my mild 390. I get damn near 15 inches of vac. Probably have a harder time getting the electric fuel pump installed. ;p
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Thinking of changing to EFI. What would be the best intake manifold to use for efi on a 390? Dual or single plane.
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Bumpty bump! C'mon guys, update time, I'm getting an itchy trigger finger.
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Put the Quick Fuel EFI system on my 418 in my convertible. Starts and idles better than any FE has a right to. Still working out some of the enrichment on acceleration. No gas smell or sooty exhaust. Will know more when I'm able to drive it and get some miles on the system.
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Sorry I work alot in the summer ...
So I Have about 400 miles on it..
Works great ! I like it alot. The bad is lack of tuning information from fitech itself. If you search the internet there is alot of information.
I went from 8-9 mpg to 14mpg ! And this was on a good dyno tune setup.
I sure like that I can tweek any setting with a push of a button !
Tweeks I have done
I added fuel to the prime. (starts right off the key faster )
I took away fuel in the warm up (idles correctly during warm up)
added fuel on fast tip in. (Hits harder)
adjusted air/fuel at cruise speed (14.3 had a slight surge feel) set to 13.6 and its perfect.
Things I like alot
turn key instant starts ! No matter hot or cold !
idle ! smoothes out my idle and it stays the same all day long no matter if its hot or cold !
The hammer ! Its instant ! no wait! its 100% 4 barrel all open instantly !
information ! you can see whats going on ! temp,vac,batt,rpm,air fuel, ect ect ! it tells you everything !
The dual tuning , The have a standard and pro tuning. (helps the average joe to tweeks)
The Bad ?
tuning information (feeling of your on your own)
Cheapness of a couple of the adapters supplied. ( I used my own)
The feeling of wanting to mess with it ! Its to easy to use ! it runs great and you sit in the driveway and tinker !!!!!! ....
overall ! if your the average guy wanting a awsome efi for alot less than the average pricing of efi systems GO FOR IT !!!! ....
right now I dont have the timing being controlled by the efi. I have the timing perfect as it is and would rather just get the efi right first. Maybe this spring I will switch it over once Im positive I understand the efi part.
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Thanks! I have a bit of rear end work to tidy up first but this is definitely going on my "ok I'm going to pull the trigger" list. Guessing once I get it up and running I can probably sell my 750DP to offset some of the cost. Keep hitting the thread with updates when time allows!
best
scott
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Thanks for the updates. That just made up my mind to try one out as well!
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Did the " cruise for the troops today "
Car ran 100% flawless! !! Fired right off the key,ran perfect in all conditions!
Very happy!!!!!!!
Wish I had this from the start!!!!!
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Did the " cruise for the troops today "
Car ran 100% flawless! !! Fired right off the key,ran perfect in all conditions!
Very happy!!!!!!!
Wish I had this from the start!!!!!
Good to hear, I am looking for a cheaper option for my truck over the SEFI in my Mustang. Sounds like this is going the right way!
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Glad to hear it works like it's suppose to Bob. I know that anything less than 5in of vacuum... You'll have to play with it to get it working correctly. I emailed them directly about that.
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update.
I did have a problem, I started the car up last sat and it fired right up and was warming up. all of a sudden it started to gurgle and blow black smoke and quit ! I was like WTF ! lol ... restarted it and it acted like the choke was on ! .. looked at the screen and the AF was reading 20 and my other AF guage was reading pig rich at 9 .. so after some reading the test of the 02 was to unplug it and the pcm will revert back to a stored map. unplugged it and the car fired right up and was running correctly. so a quick parts store run and a new 02 ($50 ) its back up and running .. No idea why it went bad but it did ... Its installed correctly ect .. oh well ..
Just thought its only fair to state the good and the bad.. so far I love the efi ,just hope the 02 was a fluke .....
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Thanks for the update! Wonder what wiped out your O2? They usually last much longer, it's just a sensor so I doubt the FI could have anything to do with it. Maybe you got the 5 oclock whistle sensor. ;D
I've been watching the price on the Power Adder and fuel Command Center, currently have a $100 rebate on the main unit.. very tempted.
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I emailed fitech .... they said they will replace it no problem .. just email them the proof of purchase and the will mail one out ....
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The "GoPort EFI" system has been listed on FiTech's website as "coming soon" for the better part of a year. Soon means something different to me. I already have the Victor EFI manifold and the associated fuel rails, so this is the system I've been wating for.
Meanwhile, they've released other models and accessories, so this tells me they have very little interest in an individual port setup.
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I also have the victor intake and fuel rails (3632)
It says 3/8 fittings. I bought 3/8 to -AN8 fittings and they do not fit, any ideas