Author Topic: Long Rod FEs  (Read 12383 times)

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plovett

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Re: Long Rod FEs
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2016, 05:07:55 PM »
As David says, spend your bucks on head flow, intake flow, exhaust flow and pretty much everything but long rods.

That is 99% of everything, in my opinion.  The rest is just the last 1%.  That is, if you are just trying to make the most power you can.

paulie

ericwevans

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Re: Long Rod FEs
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2016, 05:37:54 PM »
Thanks for the input Bob and Paulie.  I probably should have better title the post Short Stroke FEs as I think the purpose is getting confused.  360 and smaller FEs (which is what I'm building) use a longer rod than the other engines and I was looking for experience with durability.  I want looking for a performance gain out of it. 

That being said I'll take the opinion under advisement.  :-)
Eric Evans

1965 F-100, 352 FE, Tremec 3550
1960 Falcon, 306 SBF

plovett

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Re: Long Rod FEs
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2016, 06:55:34 AM »
Well my understanding, without direct experience, is that the longer FE rod may be slightly less durable than the standard length FE rod.

So, what I am saying regarding custom pistons might have some pertinence.  Maybe not.  If you're going to buy good expensive forged pistons anyway, I'd look at getting custom pistons with the right compression distance for the shorter rod.  Just a thought.

paulie

blykins

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Re: Long Rod FEs
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2016, 07:07:31 AM »
The main "plus" from a longer rod is that you cut the compression height of the piston way down.   

When working with a 3.5" stroke in an FE, the tall deck height makes for a very tall piston.  Even with a small diameter, you're looking at a pretty heavy slug.  A 6.700-6.800-7.100 rod will help that tremendously.  Even with a 7.100" rod on a 10.150" deck, you're still at a 1.300" compression height.  Obviously, you need a BBC rod journal, which isn't a deal breaker, but it does add a good bit of cost to the machining bill.  You either widen the journal in addition to turning the diameter down, or you run a narrowed rod and bearing.  Either option is not cheap.

The caveat to this is where you have a very large intake port in relation to the displacement of the engine.   For instance, a Boss 302 engine will benefit from a shorter rod as it keeps dwell time down, which in turn keeps the intake charge moving.   With the heads that will fit on a small bore FE, you generally won't have that issue though, unless the heads are hogged.

If I were building a hipo 352, I would go the 7.100" rod route....

I'm also not convinced that a longer rod won't make more torque in certain situations.  I have built a few engines where I was rewarded with a little more torque than I was expecting.  One instance was a road race 289, in which I used a steel crank, had the rod journals turned down to SBC size, used a Molnar 5.700" SBC rod that had been narrowed considerably (by about .110") and then used a GM V6 rod bearing.   Even with a 7000-7500 rpm horsepower peak, it still made 390 lb-ft of torque....a ton of torque out of a little engine. 
Brent Lykins
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plovett

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Re: Long Rod FEs
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2016, 05:15:46 PM »
I was only talking about the long and short factory FE rods.  6.54" vs approx. 6.49".    For whatever that is worth.

ericwevans

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Re: Long Rod FEs
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2016, 09:01:06 PM »
Thanks for all the info guys, I'm definitely going to look at the BBC option, I think y'all have sold me on that.  I have a contract at a machine shop here, so I'll see what the cost of machining crank will be.  I think as long as I can keep it all within a reasonable budget I believe you guys are absolutely correct will be the way to go.

Thanks again for all the advice!
Eric Evans

1965 F-100, 352 FE, Tremec 3550
1960 Falcon, 306 SBF

Tommy-T

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Re: Long Rod FEs
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2016, 01:49:19 PM »
I've used the 352/360 length rod in a few low-buck 390 builds. Like many here, I think a connecting rod holds a piston and crankshaft together and nothing more. The idea is to get the piston (usually a budget cast but sometimes a TRW) to zero or slightly proud of deck. It is always a hassle to get an FE intake manifold to fit, and machining a block .010 or more does not help any. Much easier to whittle on cheap pistons. If you are buying custom pistons or rods...this is all moot.

Will a piston at zero make your 390 have amazing power? Nope, but your pal with a stock or rebuilder 390 might notice your truck is a little "zippier". Maybe not, but in my opinion zero is where a piston is supposed to be.

As far as building a "little" FE goes, it'll run fine. My '56 "bird had a +.060 (390 block bored .010) 352 with Edelbrock heads, Streetmaster intake, 2" custom headers, and a curved vacuum advance distributor with Pertronix/MSD. Plenty of power for the little car...but in the back of your mind is ALWAYS "what if I'd put that 3 3/4" crank in that's sitting in the corner?".

My next FE build will have the NEVER used C1AE-B "lightweight" 390 length connecting rod and an Arias flat top piston. Just cuz.

chris401

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Re: Long Rod FEs
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2016, 10:08:21 PM »
Pictured are the common 330, 332, 352, 360, 361HD and 361 Edsel long rods, I do not have any 1960 HIPO 352 rods to compare. Look around the bolt area. Ford beefed up the C1AE-A rod for 60?/61? year until the last 4v 352 in 66. It is reasonable to assume the 67 pickup 352 2 barrel used the weaker/lighter C7TE rods. The C1AE-A are recorded to be about 12 grams heavier than the EDC and C7TE rods.



ericwevans

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Re: Long Rod FEs
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2016, 03:30:08 PM »
That's a great comparison.  My truck is a 65 with original block, so when I get it torn down I'll have check it, although y'all have made a great case for using BBC rods.  :)
Eric Evans

1965 F-100, 352 FE, Tremec 3550
1960 Falcon, 306 SBF

chris401

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Re: Long Rod FEs
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2016, 04:27:05 PM »
That's a great comparison.  My truck is a 65 with original block, so when I get it torn down I'll have check it, although y'all have made a great case for using BBC rods.  :)
Right where the C1 are beefed up is where my C7 broke destroying block, cam and a new set of 361 Edsel pistons. Normal driving is fine but if your going to beat on it look at HIPO rods or the BB Chevrolet rods.

wsu0702

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Re: Long Rod FEs
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2016, 06:02:24 PM »
The NHRA super stock 352 racers back in the '70-'80s were able to find a way to prep the long factory rods to live at high RPM/power.  The net54 post below explains how Jerry Pruitt and Bill Heinson were able to do it and set national records with their 352 powered 4 spd '64 custom.  I don't know how much (if any) Bill exaggerated on the launch and shift RPMs in the post below but I remember watching this car race at my local dragstrip when I was a kid and you would swear it was going to blow up it rev'd so high before launch and shifts.  Bill said that they never broke any of the properly prepped long FE rods.       

http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/message/1244499238/Re-+did+you+use+stock+352+rods+or+%26quot%3Bstock%26quot%3B+390+rods-
 

chris401

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Re: Long Rod FEs
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2016, 10:51:54 PM »
The NHRA super stock 352 racers back in the '70-'80s were able to find a way to prep the long factory rods to live at high RPM/power.  The net54 post below explains how Jerry Pruitt and Bill Heinson were able to do it and set national records with their 352 powered 4 spd '64 custom.  I don't know how much (if any) Bill exaggerated on the launch and shift RPMs in the post below but I remember watching this car race at my local dragstrip when I was a kid and you would swear it was going to blow up it rev'd so high before launch and shifts.  Bill said that they never broke any of the properly prepped long FE rods.       

http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/message/1244499238/Re-+did+you+use+stock+352+rods+or+%26quot%3Bstock%26quot%3B+390+rods-
Thanks for the link.

Ford428CJ

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Re: Long Rod FEs
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2016, 12:10:53 PM »
I'm building a CRAZY 360 and the crank I got from Mr Lykins. I'm gonna use a Chevy type rod. A H Beam that is 6.8". Think it's gonna spin @ 7200 RPM with the solid roller cam I got and intake set up.
Wes Adams FORD428CJ 
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ericwevans

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Re: Long Rod FEs
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2016, 02:35:46 PM »
That sounds very similar to what I'm building.  I think these guys have me bought into the BBC rod and a custom piston, I was originally planning a stock rod with a 6500 shift point, but with the BBC rod I'll probably spin it harder as well.  When I get back home (out of town this week) I'll post what I'm planning in the projects forum.
Eric Evans

1965 F-100, 352 FE, Tremec 3550
1960 Falcon, 306 SBF

Ford428CJ

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Re: Long Rod FEs
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2016, 02:39:07 PM »
Wes Adams FORD428CJ 
Hillside Auto- Custom Curved, Blueprinted Distributors
03 F-250 Crew Cab 4x4 6.0 and 35's
64 Falcon 428FE
55 FORD Truck 4-link Rides on air with 428FE