FE Power Forums

FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: blykins on September 08, 2020, 12:58:29 PM

Title: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: blykins on September 08, 2020, 12:58:29 PM
Wow, I didn't think I'd ever get to this point.  Between not having time to work on it and changing my mind so many times, I didn't think I'd ever get to hear it run again.  I'm a stickler on appearance and I think an engine needs to look the part as well as perform the part.  This was a complete 1966 engine when it started, so after many careful considerations and mind changes, I settled on the fact that I'd like for it to look like a 352 that had been upgraded with factory parts from the day.  To me, it wouldn't have been out of the ordinary for a guy with this engine in 1967-1968 to add a different intake manifold, different valve covers, etc., and have a hopped up 352 that would make some decent power in between the shock towers of a '66 Custom or similar. 

Keep in mind that this is not the final iteration.  There are a lot of parts in this engine that won't make sense right now because I have future "upgrades" in mind that will make all the parts work together well.  The bottom end is pretty final, the camshaft, intake manifold, and valvetrain are final, but the cylinder heads are band-aids at best right now.

I'm still a couple weeks off as I plan to measure and order pushrods this week and I'm waiting on some harmonic balancers, but it's getting close.

*Factory C6ME 352 block, 4.040" finished bore size, bored/honed with torque plates, align honed with ARP main bolts, square decked with BHJ fixture to 10.145".
*Factory 352 crankshaft
*Calico coated King main bearings
*Federal Mogul rod bearings
*Durabond FP cam bearings
*Custom Racetec forged pistons, 1.920" compression height, 5cc flat top, 1mm/2mm Mahle ring pack
*Molnar FE connecting rods
*Factory C6AE-R heads with 5/16" stem 2.080"/1.650" valves.  PAC small diameter dual valve springs, 270 seat/680 open, with Manley titanium retainers.  A very basic valve job was completed with a nice A-B test in mind in the future.  Heads were decked more than I'd like to comment on at this time.  However, with the heads milled, the flat tops, and some careful measuring and head gasket selection, I'm at 10.5:1. 
*Cam is one of my custom solid rollers, ground by Comp.  It's 256/266 @ .050", on a 106 LSA, with .650"/.670" lift at the valve.  Lobes are middle of the road on aggression.  I have one of Jay's adjustable timing sets as well as one of his 2-piece timing covers.  I spent the better part of this past Friday degreeing the cam in a couple of different spots, as well as checking piston/valve clearance at those settings, and then checking piston/valve clearance with each setting on several different cylinders.   It's common to have to cut factory heads differing amounts to make the chamber sizes match up and it's best to not take anything for granted with piston/valve clearance.  Let's just say that with checking springs and checking pushrods, clearance was pretty tight....tight enough that I swapped over to the real springs and an actual pushrod to get some more comforting numbers. 
*Valvetrain is a set of my roller tipped non-adjustable rocker arms.  I'll be pairing these up with some HD shafts and POP stands/spacers. 
*Intake is a Joe Craine ported "F" PI intake.   The plenum divider has not been cut at this time.  This is something that I will do at a later date for another A-B comparison.
*Oil system consists of one of my factory appearing pans, with trap doors and baffles.  It's not going to be the winner in terms of making power, but it goes with the theme for now.  I have a Melling M57B oil pump and various "choke points" along the way in the galleys. 
*I have a 1030cfm 3-bbl carb that Drew recolored for me.  However, I would count on using an 830cfm dyno carb for the pulls. 
*Will be turning the water pump with no other crank driven accessories.

All-in-all, it's just a hyped up factory engine with a few tricks here and there.  I expect it to make decent power now but to really shine once the heads are ported.   The camshaft duration and spring pressures are really forward-looking in that respect. 

Ok, so closest without going over on corrected horsepower will win some goodies.  Tell ya what, if someone nails the hp and torque numbers to the single digit, they will get a free set of my non-adjustable rocker arms. 

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50307349548_1d0d2e0e42_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50308178662_16df31f791_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50307342883_ef44fbf98e_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50307342483_e8e8116591_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50307332138_f738cbf9f4_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50307332083_8ae03e6dce_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50311508491_dd32d00ede_z.jpg)

Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: shady on September 08, 2020, 01:37:09 PM
hp 478 tq 401
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: HarleyJack17 on September 08, 2020, 02:00:58 PM
391 HP 428 TQ
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: My427stang on September 08, 2020, 03:05:18 PM
I changed my tune, it is a big cam and a good intake and other good parts.

444 HP / 431 TQ

You'll probably hear the howl out of those intake ports though!
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: Joe-JDC on September 08, 2020, 03:20:12 PM
That is a lot of camshaft, so going with 462 tq/522 hp.  Joe-JDC
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: machoneman on September 08, 2020, 03:33:01 PM
521 hp, 468 torque
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: chilly460 on September 08, 2020, 03:59:17 PM
430hp/415ftlbs
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: BigBlueIron on September 08, 2020, 04:29:58 PM
471hp 445ft
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: Sand hauler on September 08, 2020, 04:31:11 PM
501 hp/ 475 tq
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: KsHighboy on September 08, 2020, 07:11:05 PM
This is a fun one!
482hp and 443tq
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: fryedaddy on September 08, 2020, 07:14:45 PM
451 hp+429 tq is my guess
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: cammerfe on September 08, 2020, 08:57:20 PM
I'll change the flavor of this just a bit. I'll not guess, but simply say that it's a 'purdy' engine with some good parts, and I believe that all performance Ford engines should be painted black. Particularly if they have solid lifters.

KS
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: 475fetoploader on September 08, 2020, 09:46:58 PM
491 at 6300.   439 at 5200. 
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: WerbyFord on September 08, 2020, 10:37:17 PM
I'll change the flavor of this just a bit. I'll not guess, but simply say that it's a 'purdy' engine with some good parts, and I believe that all performance Ford engines should be painted black. Particularly if they have solid lifters.

KS

I agree that solid lifter FE's should be black, but anything with those WerbyFord valve covers needs to be FoMoCo Blue. Conflicted!

Anyway the Gonkulator says, at 2 advance or 104 ICL which seemed about the best:
Torq 404 at 4700
Powr 450 at 6300
This is with just a valve job, no bowl or port work. Waiting for that later.
It really doesn't want all that cam - yet.

OR, at 105 ICL per the contest:
Torq 403 at 4700
Powr 451 at 6300
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: Plumber on September 09, 2020, 01:45:50 AM
426hp , 418tq
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: blykins on September 09, 2020, 04:39:44 AM
Cam is currently at 105 and that’s where we will run it for the contest’s sake.

I did degree it to try on a 108 and I’ll try that too, separate from the contest.
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: 64PI on September 09, 2020, 05:16:37 AM
I'll go with 495 HP and 445 torque. I'll be curious to see what the curve looks like on this one.. Also interested in seeing how the 3 barrel compares. Awesome build, Brent.

Fred
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: cattleFEeder on September 09, 2020, 05:26:03 AM
440 HP 425 TQ
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: Twinibeam66 on September 09, 2020, 09:22:42 AM
437 HP  489 TQ
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: Gregwill16 on September 09, 2020, 10:13:27 AM
448 hp 434 tq
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: Riderjeff on September 09, 2020, 11:23:00 AM
I think this is a great project, but can you still call it "Project Junky-Junk"?

456 HP, 442 TQ
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: blykins on September 09, 2020, 11:43:23 AM
I think this is a great project, but can you still call it "Project Junky-Junk"?

456 HP, 442 TQ

Yep, you gotta remember your roots LOL

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48991100452_ce60f50b67_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49117931363_598d9e27d4_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: stubbie on September 09, 2020, 07:35:16 PM
440HP and 420TQ
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: dhash0226 on September 09, 2020, 09:27:38 PM
428 HP, 390 TQ
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: jmlay on September 09, 2020, 09:42:55 PM
You must run that aircleane on the dyno.    ;D
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: TwoFifty on September 10, 2020, 03:25:48 PM
I'm going to go with 463 HP / 427 TQ

Curious to see where it noses over, should be interesting.
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: hhiibel on September 13, 2020, 02:55:18 PM
398hp. 425tq
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: wowens on September 13, 2020, 05:16:04 PM
481--416
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: 6667fan on September 25, 2020, 08:58:23 PM
479 peak hp/454 ft.lbs.
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: blykins on September 26, 2020, 04:53:57 AM
I'm trying to finish this one up guys, but Cometic is taking forever on sending head gaskets.
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: Stangman on September 26, 2020, 02:44:36 PM
Should be a nice little setup.
429 HP and 476 ft lbs torque
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: 70bosscat on September 26, 2020, 07:31:59 PM
460hp and 427tq

Pump gas compression, factory heads and a cam that will want to spin makes you go hmmm.
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: blykins on September 27, 2020, 05:29:08 AM
460hp and 427tq

Pump gas compression, factory heads and a cam that will want to spin makes you go hmmm.

Gotta start somewhere.  The next iteration will be a lot more fun.
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: My427stang on September 27, 2020, 09:32:19 AM
I think the other thing to remember is we are talking healthy 427 power out of a 352 without any significant head work and a dual plane intake.....

May not sound like big power, but even 425 HP is 1.20 per cid, that'd be a 512 HP 427 or a 578 HP 482, of course the heads wouldn't feed the big guns, but this little 352 is nothing to sneeze at. 

Stuck in a 67 Mustang with a 4.30 gear, it'll be a hot machine, can't wait to hear the results and see it grow from there
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: Joe-JDC on September 27, 2020, 10:49:39 AM
If the heads flow in the 240-250 cfm range, and with over .600" lift solid roller camshaft, and ported intake, with the 10.5:1 compression, the good ring package, etc., should be in the 1.4-1.42 hp/ci range.  My little 303Y with similar preparation, head flow, .600" lift solid lifter engine made 390tq/463hp with 10.45:1 compression.  No reason the 352 can't do the same.  JMO, but it should be a good chance to see what a blueprint can do with a forgotten engine.  Joe-JDC
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: DubyaTF on September 29, 2020, 02:53:02 PM
  492 hp with 450 lb/ft
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: blykins on October 08, 2020, 08:26:26 AM
Cometic says they won't ship head gaskets until 10.20.20.   I've been waiting since I placed the order on September 8. 

I canceled that order and will just use a set of 1020's.  I'm going to lose about .2 of a point of compression because the gasket bore sizes are so dissimilar, but I'd like to get this thing dyno'd before 2021.
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: bluef100fe on October 10, 2020, 08:02:55 PM
I’ll guess... 460hp and 410tq... I think the cam duration is gonna hurt the tq some, along with the low compression. Narrow LSA should help some with that but I’m thinking this thing will run like a old 2 stroke dirt bike... kinda dead down low and then come on strong in the mid range and rpm for days up top. Neat build Brent.
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: blykins on October 16, 2020, 04:52:55 AM
Well, head gaskets are here and heads are on.   Measured for pushrods but Trend wasn't able to ship a full custom set until the 23rd, so I ordered through Smith Brothers.  I'd like to have this engine together before I turn 85.
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: Stangman on October 16, 2020, 12:35:01 PM
Could be worse Brent it could be a customers engine. Your still young 85 is a long way away. :)
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: blykins on October 29, 2020, 06:06:21 PM
Alright, engine is done.  It just has to wait its turn to be dyno'd.  I hope it will be 2 weeks tops.   Going to the dyno tomorrow, but it's customer stuff first. 

Waiting its turn....

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50546156063_cc1c8f61cc_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: wayne on October 30, 2020, 08:35:28 AM
The old 3 bbl will make a good show if its not to big
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: HarleyJack17 on October 30, 2020, 10:55:49 AM
3 Barrel....I may need to up my numbers just a tad....they can surprise you.
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: blykins on October 31, 2020, 09:08:04 AM
Dyno'ing on the 13th.  Finally. 

Almost a year to the day from when I put it on the dyno when I first got it. 

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49033898757_b8589ae7fe_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50550076248_4493b68038_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: cjshaker on October 31, 2020, 09:24:58 AM
Dyno'ing on the 13th.  Finally. 

You do realize that's a FRIDAY the 13th? You sure you want to do that?  ;D
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: My427stang on October 31, 2020, 09:32:20 AM
Dyno'ing on the 13th.  Finally. 

You do realize that's a FRIDAY the 13th? You sure you want to do that?  ;D

Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead!
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: blykins on October 31, 2020, 09:55:36 AM
Dyno'ing on the 13th.  Finally. 

You do realize that's a FRIDAY the 13th? You sure you want to do that?  ;D

I'll let you know if it was a good decision or not on the 14th LOL
Title: Re: Guess the horsepower game on Project Junky Junk.....
Post by: fryedaddy on November 15, 2020, 11:26:34 AM
430hp/415ftlbs
looks closest to me 433-405