Author Topic: machine shop cant align bore block  (Read 10290 times)

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gregaba

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machine shop cant align bore block
« on: June 05, 2019, 04:19:53 PM »
Hi
After 2 months my machine shop called today and said they could not align bore my 428.
I had it at another shop and they lost my main caps so I bought a set of used caps from a member here.
My question is what would prevent the shop from align boring the block?
I guess I will have to find me another standard bore block or use my 406.
Greg

67428GT500

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Re: machine shop cant align bore block
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2019, 04:39:40 PM »
They couldn't tell you why? I bought cross bolted caps because the machine shop lost them several years ago and there was no issue. Perhaps they are incompetent? There seems to be a lot of that going around with machinist lately. The ones that know what they're doing are retiring or deceased sad to say. The good ones are far and few between these days.

gregaba

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Re: machine shop cant align bore block
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2019, 04:45:11 PM »
No on the phone he said his guy worked on it all night last night and couldn't do the job.
I will pick it up tomorrow of Friday depending on the weather and take it some where else.
I think I will let your machine shop in Tx look at it.
I hadn't taken my heads and crank assembly to them yet because I was waiting to see how the block turned out and the cost.
Greg

67428GT500

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Re: machine shop cant align bore block
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2019, 04:56:04 PM »
Greg, I have an FE specialist that does GREAT FE work in Arlington. He just offset bored my new block and bored each cylinder to match the JE pistons, align honed and square decked it.
He has done some magazine builds as well. He has the cleanest machine shop I've ever been in and he does a LOT o work. He's anal and it's quality work.
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Charles Machine
2230 W. Division STE A
Arlington, TX. 76012
817.991.2038

gregaba

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Re: machine shop cant align bore block
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2019, 05:02:28 PM »
Thanks
I will call him in the morning.
Greg

67xr7cat

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Re: machine shop cant align bore block
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2019, 06:37:41 PM »
When you line bore you take some material off the caps so you have material to remove when doing the align bore. Problem with used cap from another engine is they can be off a good bit. Usually you try them all different ways to try and find a combo that is close. Having extra caps can help a lot here. Some shops have lots of spares, but some don't making it harder if what you supply is way off. That said you still can make 1-4 work just is more work to do. Now no. 5 on an FE can see being a problem if it is off side to side alot. Likely only solution on that be find one closer or use a new cap.

I'd say the shop told you what they did because they did not want to waste a lot of time on it especially if they already quoted you a price. Steve

gregaba

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Re: machine shop cant align bore block
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2019, 06:56:02 PM »
Hi Steve
They never said anything about needing extra caps but did mention the #5 main was their main worry. I have a bunch of extra main caps off of old builds I could have taken to him but I thought it would to have a set of matched caps.
I have a dial bore gauge and checked the mains torqued down and didn't notice any excessive out of round in any of them.
The only thing I was concerned about was the parting lines were just a little off on each one.
The reason I went to this race shop was the guys from the tv show Street Outlaws [who have a 20,000 sf speed shop in our small town]recommended them.
I should have turned around and went home when I saw that everything in their shop was GM.
I went online and was going to order a set of Pro Gram main caps but the owner sold the operation and I could not find any of them any where.
 I really wish they had a good machine shop closer then a 4 hour drive from me.
Greg

thatdarncat

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Re: machine shop cant align bore block
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2019, 07:33:28 PM »
Greg, Tim Meyer at TMeyer Inc. here in Minnesota is working on making FE main caps available. He’s not quite finished yet, but if you are interested in an aftermarket main cap set you might want to check with him and see how close he is on the project. He mostly specializes in Cleveland parts, but he definitely has the FE caps in the works. I have no idea if that will solve your particular issue though. Here’s a link to his website:

https://www.tmeyerinc.com/
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gregaba

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Re: machine shop cant align bore block
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2019, 07:42:00 PM »
Thank you
I will call him tomorrow.
Greg

67428GT500

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Re: machine shop cant align bore block
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2019, 10:47:27 PM »
Something else just crossed my mind looking at this thread. You didn't wind up with an early set of caps with the early thrust bearing size.  I'm more inclined to believe they just don't have the proper equipment and expertise. Charles' array of machinery is pretty impressive. He is an FE specialist as well.

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67xr7cat

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Re: machine shop cant align bore block
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2019, 06:26:54 AM »
Keith have you ever done an align bore and hone job? I have and facing the thrust surface is part of it, but used caps can pose a problem if they are off as not enough material to remove. Same problem with mis registration at the parting lines as everything come out of the caps. You don't want to be getting into the block side.

Machine shop can be a hard business to make money and not everyone wants to fix someone else's mess. The blame here is the shop that lost the caps and they should have made things right. In this case you need to find caps that are close or use new ones, otherwise your wasting a lot of time and risking screwing up the block.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 09:15:27 AM by jayb »

blykins

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Re: machine shop cant align bore block
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2019, 08:23:49 AM »
Keith have you ever done an align bore and hone job? I have and facing the thrust surface is part of it, but used caps can pose a problem if they are off as not enough material to remove. Same problem with mis registration at the parting lines as everything come out of the caps. You don't want to be getting into the block side.

Machine shop can be a hard business to make money and not everyone wants to fix someone else's mess. The blame here is the shop that lost the caps and they should have made things right. In this case you need to find caps that are close or use new ones, otherwise your wasting a lot of time and risking screwing up the block.

X2....you can't just make any set of caps work with any block.  Over the years, when looking for blocks for builds, when someone says they have a nice block without caps, I will just pass on.  Too much trouble to make it work out. 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 09:15:41 AM by jayb »
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fe-starliner

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Re: machine shop cant align bore block
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2019, 08:40:15 AM »
Greg I'll give a BIG +1 for Charles Eller in Arlington, Texas.  I've known him for more than 30 years and he's done excellent work on several of my FE's over the years.  It might be a long drive for you, but I guarantee you it will be worth it.
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Falcon67

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Re: machine shop cant align bore block
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2019, 08:45:16 AM »
>I sorry but are arrogant guys like you think they know everything give shops a bad name.
I don't see him being particularly arrogant about this.  Consider:

>I had it at another shop and they lost my main caps

So we're 50/50 here on machine shops.  So that's plenty IMHO to make someone that doesn't have block work done every week lose confidence in the process.  I had a race shop in Houston do a set of 4V 351C heads for me, then had to have them re-done later because of the shitty bottom barrel guide and seat work done.  And this was a nice shop with a row of aluminum hemi blocks with names like Densham, Force and such waiting for work.  Yes, the first shop should have made right.  But they also should have been competent enough not to lose critical parts from a customer's engine.  There is zero excuse IMHO for that.  If your internal handling process is that f'd up, what else can you not do right?  As for the 2nd shop, they should have either said "pass" or given sufficient push back that "We can try, but here's the deal...".  So now he's 2 for 2 on spent your money and didn't fix your problem.

Yes, it's hard to make a living in auto machine - because now most people don't use them.  Most of the dealers work directly with their brand and get reman assemblies.  Customer's that have driven their low end vehicles to the brink of rebuild typically don't have the $ to foot the cost of a engine rebuild, so the car goes to scrap. As noted, same here - all the old guys retired or left the shop on a stretcher and there are only a couple left.  And those shops are running on well maintained older equipment.  Except maybe the Raceshop boys up in Lubbock.  But even with their $,$$$,$$$ in high end equipment they said "no can do" for a crank I need .001 taken off the rod journals.   

There are very few reliable reference points these days and certainly not "social media".  Around here it's just like food - some crappy looking shops turn out A+ work while some bright and clean, up to date places screw people over horribly.  He now has a good reference to use, but before was on his own. 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 08:49:21 AM by Falcon67 »

67xr7cat

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Re: machine shop cant align bore block
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2019, 09:46:26 AM »
Machine shops is a hard deal and a dieing breed. Is hard to say exactly what happened and some of these guys just no the best at customer relations. I'd hope the 2nd shop did not charge anything as they could not do the work.

Seems best find a referal, although sometimes that don't pan out either. All I can say is try to educate yourself as to what is needed and know the right questions to ask before starting with a shop. In this case really biggest thing is find caps that are close, mainly matching up at the parting line and on the thrust. If the op has a bunch of caps he can do this himself and then the shop just has to do the align bore not be wasting time. Steve