High vol or standard water pump? 61-64 or 65+?

[Jackal]

Stock 390-4v FE 63.5 Galaxie. I am swapping in a 3-core Champion radiator and their surge tank, 195 thermostat, stock 6-blade clutch fan. Also adding a Crites hood and I have a 14" e-fan pusher. I plan to rebuild the motor in the next 2 years, likely to 410 or more stroke.

Is a high volume water pump too much for this setup? I don't want to collapse hoses or cause cooling efficiency issues. I want to go aluminum, but I have the 61-64 style with the two (3-piece) brackets as with the generator, but I have an old Delco alternator. Is there a benefit to switching to the 65+ style pump and brackets or should I keep it "correct"? Any brands to avoid?

Should I try to run it w/o the e-fan after the new coolant system is installed?

Thanks!

[manofmerc]

I cant really say whether or not you need a std. or high volume water pump .I will say that I just installed a flow kooler water pump on my 428 cyclone.It has a really nice looking impeller .Aluminum with somewhat unique vanes .All the mounts lined up perfectly it fit just like it should .And you can see the difference in the radiator .It flows a lot of coolant .They advertise pumps more water between idle and 3000 rpm .I believe that it does .My engine has always ran a little warm in traffic and at idle .From my observation of only one days use it does run cooler .Maybe five degrees to seven to eight .I cant say what it would do in your case but it does seem to do as advertised .The pump hub and bearing appear to be of a good quality and it fits better than some aftermarket pumps  I have bought .P.N. 1642 from summit .Doug

[Jackal]

Thanks Doug! I have looked at them, but they only offer them for 65+ and I'm not sure if my '63 block has the proper threaded boss for the 65+ alternator mount. I will check tonight to see if there are any unused spots left. If not I'm afraid I'm stuck with a cast iron unit that is either imported, or a US made Tuff Stuff that I've read several times of having issues, some right out of the box. Even then I'm still unsure of standard or high volume, I would imagine that the new radiator would make a difference, so I don't have a baseline to compare.

Make sure the flowkooler isn't collapsing your hoses, and thanks for taking the time to reply!

[RJP]

More on Flow-kooler water pumps. I removed a cheap dime store w/p with a stamped steel impeller and installed a new F/K pump on my 66 Galaxie 428 that always had some sort of issue running on the hot side, not over heating but in the 195-215 range depending on the engine load and outside air temp.  The 'test' came on the last road trip that included a very winding 2-2.5 mile 9-10% grade that the Galaxie always heated up to 215+/- and the engine would ping and rattle badly. The new pump flowed enough coolant at low rpm to prevent any heating issue at all. Water temp stayed at or close to the 180F thermostat with no pinging, detonation or rattling. I will also recommend Stewart water pumps also as these use a proper centrifugal impeller that moves water smoothly rather than beats the water into submission. Think along the lines of a boat propeller vs. a paddle wheel boat.

[Jackal]

Here is what I'm working with, can't tell if I have the correct threaded boss for the 65+ alternator bracket / mount or not...

[cammerfe]

Some years ago I had reason to talk to Jim Dove about his water pumps. He told me that he'd acquired the background information from the study that Ford did while doing development on the road racing engines such as the Bos 302 and 427. He integrated that information into his own impeller and the interior contours of his own pump.

Just a heads-up.

KS

[ericwevans]

Jackal, I'll take a look at my 65 when I get home tonight.  I know it has the thread boss where you are bolted onto the water pump, but I don't think it has the pin that is just to the right of it.  That pin looks required for your particular fitment.  Fwiw I believe all of the 65+ brackets mount to the water pump so you could switch to a 65+ set up that mounts the alternator above the bolt that bolts through to the block.

[Ranch]

Fan Shroud
Would help immensely, especially in stop and go traffic on those warm days.

[Jackal]

Turns out Flowkooler DOES offer a 61-64 pump, I was mistaken. Too bad they're not aluminum. They have this note on their page:

"Prior to 1965 Ford FE motors utilized a generator.  In 1965 Ford switched to an alternator.  Please note the 1642E pump has a dowel pin to accomodate the generator bracket.  Additionally the "flat part" of the casting near the hose connection is a greater area which allows for the larger pulley."

...so unless I want to drop $122 on the 65+ pump, $65-$100 on a 65+ low mount bracket, lord knows how much on the smaller water pump pulley, and speeding up my direct drive fan, I think it's probably wise to just stick with the 61-64 style for $151

Thanks all!

[ericwevans]

As for Ranch's comment about a shroud, I added a shroud and a fan clutch from a later model truck and it made a huge difference.  I've sat in Phoenix, Az. traffic for 45 in 118° heat with no issues, never goes over 190.  I just looked for a later model truck with an FE and the same size radiator core and bought the shroud, fan clutch, and fan. 

[GJCAT427]

RJP, I went to the stewart sight and they show pictures of the pump catagories  and the one that shows FEs is marked as 429/460. Suppose its a typo? it does have a different prt # than the 429/460 in the next picture.

[Yellow Truck]

For what little it is worth I had a 410 in my truck with a 3 core 69 radiator out of an F250, it it ran at a very reasonable temp regardless of the weather. Pulled the 410 and put in a 445 I built, re-used the same rad but put in a high volume Milodon iron water pump. Runs at pretty much the same temp the 410 did.

Seems the pump compensated for the additional heat.

[RJP]

RJP, I went to the stewart sight and they show pictures of the pump catagories  and the one that shows FEs is marked as 429/460. Suppose its a typo? it does have a different prt # than the 429/460 in the next picture.

Yes they do and that is a problem...I emailed them for some clarity on the FE/460 pump confusion and never heard back. The web site indicated 2 separate part numbers so I would have to assume that there are 2 different pumps for the 2 separate engine families but you know what "assume" means? LOL It was this confusion that led me to Summit's Flowkooler pump...that and the free shipping for anything over $99.00. However the Flowkooler was not without it's problems. After installing the pump and running the engine I noticed the w/p-alt. belt with some strange wear on about half the surface [the flat side] and found the belt rubbing on the w/p inlet neck. I don't know if it was due to the size of the pump pulley or the casting was off by a few degrees. A little work with a die grinder provided just enough clearance to eliminate the contact. I didn't have that problem with the Stewart pump thats on my 66 Fairlane GTA. I'd buy either pump again rather than waste my time with another dime store pump.   

[manofmerc]

I had a stewart pump on this same 428 .The mounts for both the alternator and power steering bracket were off .It wasn't much just hard to start the bolts on both brackets .And it didn't have the volume of flow like my flow kooler .I have a milidon high volume water pump on my 66 comet it bolted up fine and doesn't any cooling issues .I wanted to try the flow kooler after seeing all the work they put into the impeller .So far so good .Doug

[Jackal]

I ordered the 61-64 Flowkooler and a 195 deg. Super Stant thermostat. After calling Flowkooler, they recommended a Robertshaw high flow thermostat. Now wondering if I should go 180 or 195? I am leaning toward 180 after reading google search results and considering that I park it for the Winter and never drive it when the temps drop into the 50's. Thoughts? Is a 13 lb cap still good to go with a 180 deg. stat? Is 180 a bad idea in an aluminum radiator vs. 195?