Project Junky Junk

[blykins]

Project Junky Junk (or J^2, as Ross calls it), the gift that keeps on giving....

Had a few extra minutes today, so I went ahead and pulled the intake and heads off, just to see what everything looked like.  Used my Craftsman 18V 1/2" impact and zipped everything off.  We had used lithium grease on the intake gaskets so the intake would come off easy, so it literally took me 30 seconds to get it off. 

The heads came off easily without much fuss.  Had some copper shim gaskets underneath.  Brought one piston to TDC and it was exactly .050" down.

Some good news:

1.  Both heads ARE C6AE's.  The sludge on one side made it look like a C8AE to me a few weeks ago.  One head is for sure an R head.  Not sure about the other yet. 

2.  A rough measurement of the cylinders reveal a 3.995" bore (with ridge) and absolutely no crosshatch.....LOL 

Time for a rebuild. 

I think I'm gonna just use the C6 heads.  I was looking around for some small chamber heads, but I already have these and I'm sure they will clean up well.  Looking around my shop, I found a set of 7mm bronze valve guides and some 7mm 2.100" titanium intake valves.  Seems like a good start. 

[blykins]

[blykins]

Camshaft ordered!  Solid flat tappet....

[frnkeore]

Camshaft ordered!  Solid flat tappet....

Do you mine giving the cam specs?

A interesting rod/piston combo might be 7.1 rod x 1.32 CH piston.

https://speedmaster79.com/H-Beam-7.100-2.200-.990-Bronze-Bush-4340-Connecting-Rods-Suits-Chevy-BBC-454

[My427stang]

Camshaft ordered!  Solid flat tappet....

Do you mine giving the cam specs?

A interesting rod/piston combo might be 7.1 rod x 1.32 CH piston.

https://speedmaster79.com/H-Beam-7.100-2.200-.990-Bronze-Bush-4340-Connecting-Rods-Suits-Chevy-BBC-454

If they would fit the crank, I'd pay money to see Brent use a Speedmaster rod

[blykins]

Camshaft ordered!  Solid flat tappet....

Do you mine giving the cam specs?

A interesting rod/piston combo might be 7.1 rod x 1.32 CH piston.

https://speedmaster79.com/H-Beam-7.100-2.200-.990-Bronze-Bush-4340-Connecting-Rods-Suits-Chevy-BBC-454

If they would fit the crank, I'd pay money to see Brent use a Speedmaster rod

Hey, they would certainly fit the engine's name......

A high quality set of H-beam rods, all for the price of $228!  I bet they're dandies!

Frank, it takes a lot of work to get an FE crank to a BBC journal.  The diameter isn't the hard part, it's the width of the Chevy rod. 

I have a plan on the rods that won't kill me on machine work. 

[MeanGene]

Maybe the 351M/400 deal?

[blykins]

Maybe the 351M/400 deal?

That's what I had in mind.  Molnar has some really nice 400 rods that would work great. 

[cjshaker]

I've never held a set of Speedo-master rods, and likely wouldn't unless I was throwing them at somebody, but good gawd, when you use the enlarge feature of the picture of those rods, that is some of the shoddiest machining I have ever seen. Nicks, gouges and uneven machining are pretty apparent, everywhere....and that is straight from the Speedo-master website!!

[RustyCrankshaft]

I've never held a set of Speedo-master rods, and likely wouldn't unless I was throwing them at somebody, but good gawd, when you use the enlarge feature of the picture of those rods, that is some of the shoddiest machining I have ever seen. Nicks, gouges and uneven machining are pretty apparent, everywhere....and that is straight from the Speedo-master website!!

But they have blower manifolds in stock. So there's that.

Aptly named though. SpeedMaster. They are the masters at turning what was good castings into scrap iron and door stops at alarming speed.

[frnkeore]

I have been a aircraft machinist since 1978 and did molds before that. I own my own machine shop (ELCO Machine and Fabrication) and was a sub-contractor for Erickson Air Crane. I retired in 2007 but, still have my machine shop.
Let me point some thing out about the rods........

1. They are 4340 and they are heat treated to 200k psi. The heat treat can be check by verifying the hardness (38-42 RC) and they can be X-rayed for inclusions if you have a friend in a X-ray room for free.

2. The bores can be measured for tolerance. Do that first, send them back if out of tolerance.

3. They seem to have more than 100 sets available so the pictures may be miss leading.

4. Chevs have a .067 offset, Fords have 0. The big ends can be machined to .873, with 0 offset. Bearing width is .893, I think and the bearings can be machined in the rods and the outside surface chamfered at the same time as the rod, to what ever filet the crank pin has. If you have a lathe large enough to swing the rod, you can do that in 2-3 hours.

[blykins]

Let me point out something about Speedmaster, aka Procomp:

1.  They copy everyone else's designs and then do a poor job of manufacturing them.  They try to pass off their "3V" heads as CHI.  They try to pass off their distributors as MSD.  I could go on.
2.  Almost everything I've seen from them has been a failure or a portrait of poor manufacturing.
3.  I have seen guides and seats fall out of their heads.  I've seen their roller rockers spit out the roller tips on break-in on the dyno.  I've seen their intake manifolds have porosity.  Again, I could go on.
4.  There are good offshore products and there are bad.  Speedmaster is below bad. 

Even if I ignored the quality and just concentrated on the principle of their MO, I would have to pass.  But on top of that, there's no way I would pay that money for their junk, have to "x-ray them", then check sizing on the big ends, and recheck everything else they have done when I can buy a set of Scat/Molnar/etc rods for a couple hundred more. 

I'll pass.

[frnkeore]

We don't ever seem to see eye to eye on anything nor be able to speak w/o crass.

You where approaching this on a cost saving bases and I was only trying to help. I do what I described to 400 chev rods (5.565) and install them in a 302 with 1.125 CH chev pistons and offset grind the crank .010, for a ~.006 deck height. It's a little easier, in that I can use chev V6 rod bearings.

Regarding copying, who does not copy Carrillo H beam rods? Aand I'm supersized that you don't check all rods for at least big end dimensions that come into your shop.

This would have been a good opportunity to test for HP differences in a long vs shorter rod engine.

I'm sorry I couldn't help.

 

[blykins]

We don't ever seem to see eye to eye on anything nor be able to speak w/o crass.

You where approaching this on a cost saving bases and I was only trying to help. I do what I described to 400 chev rods (5.565) and install them in a 302 with 1.125 CH chev pistons and offset grind the crank .010, for a ~.006 deck height. It's a little easier, in that I can use chev V6 rod bearings.

Regarding copying, who does not copy Carrillo H beam rods? Aand I'm supersized that you don't check all rods for at least big end dimensions that come into your shop.

This would have been a good opportunity to test for HP differences in a long vs shorter rod engine.

I'm sorry I couldn't help.

Frank, I check everything and then some.   Checking is one thing, but remachining something that is supposed to already be machined and right is another.  Procomp has a reputation and I’m not into spending another $200-300 in time or labor to make those rods right.

I use specific brands because of their reputation and my experiences with them.  I’m not saying there are brands that are perfect because we know that’s not true.  However, some brands are known for their good quality and some are known for bad. 

And no, we don’t see eye to eye on a lot of stuff, but that’s life.

[blykins]

BTW Frank,

I'm not discounting your idea.

As a matter of fact, I'd much rather have a 7" or 7.100" rod and a shorter piston.  However, I don't really see that being in the cards for this one as modifying rods and bearings is time consuming and this is a project that's not going to make me any money.   I'm trying to be prudent and keep machining processes to a minimum. 

I've done what you're describing several times, mainly on SBF engines, but the difference is that there are narrowed bearings already available and you don't have to cut them down.  I've messed with 289's and 302's that used SBC 5.700" rods, which required quite a bit of work.