Best FE Heads And Why ?

[427HISS]

What manufacturer do you like the best, and why ?

Which are ready out of the box ?
Are $3,000 heads worth it ?
Is max flow the only factor that matters ?
What makes one manufacturer better than the rest ?.
Can highly polished ports make a big difference in flow ?
How much does port matching matter ?

How do you like the new AFR heads and why ?

[chilly460]

AFR doesn’t make FE heads

[Rory428]

Pretty broad question, what is the intended application supposed to do? A mild cruiser and a 8 second drag car have vastly different head requirements, as does a .030" over 352, compared to a 520 cube engine. Kinda like asking how high is up.

[Skeeter65]

Following this to see where it goes... I would like to see AFR get into the FE world as from what I've seen in the small block Ford world, they perform very well.

[427HISS]

AFR doesn’t make FE heads

Sorry, I meant Trick Flow.

[427HISS]

Pretty broad question, what is the intended application supposed to do? A mild cruiser and a 8 second drag car have vastly different head requirements, as does a .030" over 352, compared to a 520 cube engine. Kinda like asking how high is up.

Just in general, middle of the road, average, combo of street & racing, low to high rpm....but if you must, on the street, 500-650 HP/TQ.
Ya know, best of all worlds.

[GerryP]

With that criteria, I'd go with cammer heads.

[Joey120373]

With those criteria, if you have the funds, a set of Blair Patric pro ports would arguably be “the best”.

But I think if you look at the dyno section you will find that the Felony, BBM or trick flow heads are all capable of those numbers. The TF look to offer a bit more bang for the buck with the CNC porting, but they have their quirks.

I think most would agree that the BP PP heads are on another level and are worth the extra money.

There are others out there, the pro-max are not so cheep knock offs of edelbrocks, ( from what I’ve heard, and for the price you might as well just buy a set of the Edelbrocks.

Speaking of Edelbrock heads, out of the box you probably won’t get there, but with some work they have made some serious power.

Take a look at the dyno section and it should give you a pretty good idea of what heads will do what.

[chilly460]

I think most would agree that the BP PP heads are on another level and are worth the extra money.

His PP cost seems to be a mystery, is it some tightly held number? 

[frnkeore]

North of 4k

[chilly460]

North of 4k

As always, question then becomes how much they'd help the combo at all.  Hard to beat TFS for a typical 445-462ci hydraulic roller'd deal.  I know PP's have made great power on combos that are a notch above this type engine, but at ~600hp you start looking at stock 2 bolt bottom end block survival, so not sure it's worth the expense bolting them on this type deal.  These 4.25" strokers in cheap blocks seem to hit a nice sweet spot for budget, RPM window, lowend torque, and hydraulic roller stability. 

[427HISS]

With those criteria, if you have the funds, a set of Blair Patric pro ports would arguably be “the best”.

But I think if you look at the dyno section you will find that the Felony, BBM or trick flow heads are all capable of those numbers. The TF look to offer a bit more bang for the buck with the CNC porting, but they have their quirks.

I think most would agree that the BP PP heads are on another level and are worth the extra money.

There are others out there, the pro-max are not so cheep knock offs of edelbrocks, ( from what I’ve heard, and for the price you might as well just buy a set of the Edelbrocks.

Speaking of Edelbrock heads, out of the box you probably won’t get there, but with some work they have made some serious power.

Take a look at the dyno section and it should give you a pretty good idea of what heads will do what.

How much are Blair's pro ports ?

[frnkeore]

Blairs PP are more for the "competitor" and not the street/strip car.

They can go into the realm of the Johnny Horton song "North to Alaska" in the lyric "WAY UP NORTH", depending on valves, springs and attention to detail.

[cammerfe]

You should take a look at Jay's heads.

KS

[475fetoploader]

Blairs PP are more for the "competitor" and not the street/strip car.



I must be a hybrid. Since I’m putting them on a mainly street/some strip car.

[chilly460]

You should take a look at Jay's heads.

KS

I personally feel like Jay's heads would work fine on a street/strip deal as the cross section should be fine, just not sure they're needed if a guy is running a stock block as it would be in the "danger zone" for sure.  Plus I think the OP has a multi-stack EFI/carb type intake that wouldn't work with the heads.  Also not sure how well Jay's heads/intake will fit under a low hood line? 

[Royce]

Well at the risk of getting shot at here, I would rank them this way..

Pro Ports and Jays heads are the best flowing and highest potential power makers. You need to think carefully before using them on a street engine.

At the other end of the scale would be the un-ported Ebocks.. Take some weight off  economical and a small performance increase over iron..

I would rank the other 3 in the middle, all of them have about the same potential. It then becomes a matter of price, availability, personal taste, and relationship with the vendor/builder..  I would not hesitate to bolt any of those 3 on a hot street/strip FE. AFIK there are no issues with quality or support on any of them.   But, what the heck do I know..  I am a Y block guy

[Keith Stevens]

I have to agree with Royce. I know many of you are here are true drag racers. You're all out. Jays heads don't fit a tower car. I believe Blue Thunder heads have some exhaust port differences that didn't work, or required custom headers.  I picked up a set of KB/Edelbrock stage II heads that were used for one season from a member here. They have .225 -1.75 valves.
I was pleasantly surprised when I used the camera to take a look down the ports to find they line up almost exactly with the factory MR intake.
If I had a complaint, and it seems somewhat common is that the valve cover rail is low. They have no issue up over 6000 rpm and the engine actually runs cooler, not to mention a 55LB weight reduction off the shock towers.  Always good on a Mustang.

[jayb]

Let me clear up a couple of misconceptions about my heads:

1.  They do fit a shock tower car, the SE version has the exhaust port outlets in the same place as a stock medium riser or CJ FE.  Bolt pattern is the same as a CJ.
2.  Port cross sectional area of my heads is nearly identical to a stock medium riser port.  As a result, despite their excellent flow, they do not sacrifice port velocity.  Which means they are entirely streetable.

When I get the time, hopefully in a month or two, I will be putting together a 390 stroker with my heads, to show viability as a 600-650 HP street engine.  Given the superior performance of my heads, I should be able to reduce cam and compression to very mild levels, and still hit those power numbers. 

[Keith Stevens]

Thank you for clearing that up Jay. In the original post during development it was stated they would not work with tower cars. Can you use a 6114 Hooker header with them like a 428 CJ as well?

[jayb]

You are correct that the first version (what I refer to now as the RE, or Raised Exhaust version) would not fit a shock tower car.  I decided to make a second version, SE for Stock Exhaust, that will fit shock tower cars.  My rationale was purely selfish, since I have a couple shock tower cars I want to install the heads on    Since performance from the SE version was very close to the RE version, I decided to make both types available for production.

Those headers you mentioned will fit.

[Joe-JDC]

I have tried to stay out of this fray, but some points need to be made to clear up what works best, especially for the price.  You absolutely cannot beat the TFS head for flow, quality, and price out of the box.  They flow 330 cfm, cost less than $2K, and with a little work can flow 345-360 cfm.  Next, the Keith Craft Stage II heads flow 338-340 cfm, cost $2600.00 last time I checked.  No body will talk about the Pro Ports, or give a flow number, but they cost north of $6K with quality retainers and springs.  The CNC'd Edelbrocks usually come in several stages at 310/340/360 cfm ratings, but those I have flowed are shy of those numbers, even with 2.250 intake valves.  BBM CNC'd were a disappointment, also at ~330 cfm, Pond CNC were down, Patrick CNC were down at ~320-330 cfm and turbulent until .800".  The BT MR with a 2.190 intake will flow 360 cfm as cast, and with CNC program 390-400 cfm, the Survival CNC will flow ~365-369 cfm, Jay's head as cast was up by 20 cfm over all these heads into the 420-430 cfm range.  At 75 years age, I am retired, but still have logs of all the heads I have flowed over the last 25 years, just last month had my SF-600 flow bench gone through with Super Flow to verify everything is working properly.  They no longer will be supporting the SF-600, so it will probably go into moth balls along with me. 

I have been to EMC four times, helped on several teams which finished 1st, 2nd, 4th and 6th in different years.  My personal engines finished 2nd and 6th.   Joe-JDC

[CaptCobrajet]

So I just read this thread.  I'm not going to try to sell my heads on here.  A person should do research and make an informed decision.  "Patrick CNC" can't accurately describe a pimple on an elephant's ass of all of the different programs we have.  I have revised the "Street Pro Port" seven times over the course of the time Edelbrock has been doing those castings.  When a person comes here for heads, the first things to figure out are budget, and how they intend to use it.   From there, I try to inform them to the best of my ability and do something to maximize their "bang for the buck".  There are five intake ports, two exhaust ports, and two combustion chambers that we generally sell in Ed Pro Port castings when selling cylinder heads or top end packages. I have a few other ports that we use in class legal or max effort race apps, that are cost prohibitive.......if not working within rules, it just isn't a sensible way to go.

"Street Pro Ports" have stock MR location intake and exhaust flanges.  I don't advertise numbers.  I sell heads that work.  Just for information purposes, I had Bischoff flow a Street Pro Port as a "3rd party".   320 at .500, 347 at .700.  Exhaust 240-ish in the stock location.  I don't need to go into any more detail here, but the ports are in the MR location, and they don't look like anything else mentioned here, and they do not cost $6K.  $4200 is current pricing for standard seats and 72cc chambers.  From there, there are MANY options. It is possible to get Econo Pro Ports for $3500, or max effort class-legal heads that are 15K. Raised and relocated exhaust ports flow 255 to 280 depending on port and valve size.  It all depends on goals and use. From 55cc chambers, to Oval Port and High Riser intake ports that will flow 400+ cfm, depending on where they are flowed.  I never see more than 390 here on any of my ports, but other folks have benches that read higher than mine.

We also work on many other brands of heads.  We just finished R&D on the next generation BBM heads. They are better than current offerings with only a 2.100 intake valve, and notably superior to any current stock location shelf available heads with the optional cnc package. They should be available in the Fall. 


Posted for information and clarification.  I'm not sure why every topic in which my stuff is mentioned always results in one or more experts on here, without fail, making false assumptions or misleading statements about my junk.  Sometimes there are trade-offs to accomplish goals.  Often, a max flow number is given up to get more meat where it needs it.  Sometimes ports are smaller, with high velocity by design, so quoting a flow number doesn't tell the whole story.  If you just buy a flow number, you may not get what you need.  Lots more to it. 
BP.

[Keith Stevens]

Thanks for the information, Joe. I didn't think the heads flowed that well from KB. They are the 2.25-1.75 variant. I dumped the supplied springs being I wasn't running a roller cam. I didn't pay 2600 for them either. I stumbled on very fair deal.

I think Barry R's heads are up in the 2400 range without valves. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I also know there was a problem with supply for many who bought them had waited for months and months. I know those issues were resolved with the purchasers on the SAAC forum.
Blue Thunder is another that has been hard to obtain parts from in the last few years. I haven't spoken to Francis is probably 10 years, so I am not sure why.

[Stangman]

Kieth Barry’s heads are 2500 complete. That is the non CNCd version. I think a lot of people are having problems with supply right now. And that’s with a lot of things. I believe Brent was having problems getting parts also. I think it’s a country wide problem now not just automotive.

[MRadke]

Blair Patrick - It's good to see you post on here again, if only for the clarification on heads.

[fryedaddy]

i was thinking about having my bbms cnc'd.but after Joes comment about them being a disappointment cnc'd, im second guessing them,even wishing i had bought something else.i bought them just a month or two before the trickflows came out.what to do,what to do.

[67xr7cat]

i was thinking about having my bbms cnc'd.but after Joes comment about them being a disappointment cnc'd, im second guessing them,even wishing i had bought something else.i bought them just a month or two before the trickflows came out.what to do,what to do.

I have to say I have tried to stay out of this thread as "best head" is a loaded question. I depends on the application and exactly what you want to accomplish.  A 400cfm head can be a dog on the street if the port is low velocity, but guys buy it because of the number. 

I think Joe was trying to give an answer, but to some extent did a disservice in what he posted. I think you need to keep in mind it is his opinion and based on his experience, testing, and biases too. Honestly the last part of his post where he felt the need to post up his past accomplishments and how long he has been porting just turns me off.  Are a lot of guys who are accomplished don't feel the need to do that. Your work should speak for itself.  Now I am not trying to take anything away from Joe, what he has done is notable, but just because he was not impressed with a head on a flow bench would not make me automatically discount them. Everyone has their own way and many times more than on path will lead to a good result.

I'd say if you have them and they should meet your goal then use them.  If you are not sure I'd either try them and see or talk to a few who know and work with them a lot and those who are using them as to their experience, then make your own informed decision.  I can say Blair Patrick knows the BBM heads well and am sure he would give you his thoughts on the matter. Just remember we race cars not flow benches and the total package matters. -Steve

[Jb427]

My bbm cnc heads flowed ok had them tested here in Australia they flow just shy of 350cfm at .700 on a 4.250 bore i am happy with them. I may of gone another way now that i have found out more info on people who port them and i wish i spoke to people about my cam choice. I am happy with everything it should make my goal of 600 and i have room to change camshaft down the line.

[351crules]

Blair Patrick - It's good to see you post on here again, if only for the clarification on heads.

agreed 100%

[amdscooter]

Promaxx is making FE heads now too.

https://promaxxperformance.com/product/maxx-170-ford-fe/

[cjshaker]

Promaxx is making FE heads now too.

https://promaxxperformance.com/product/maxx-170-ford-fe/

Promaxx is not regarded as a quality head by any pro builder. Buyer beware.

And I agree, it's nice to see Blair throw some real world reality and common sense into the fray. Something that was sorely lacking in this discussion. Even though flow numbers are about the only technical way to compare heads, it's a very small slice of the pie when it comes to how they perform for an intended purpose.

[wowens]

Blair Patrick - It's good to see you post on here again, if only for the clarification on heads.

agreed 100%

X3

[e philpott]

Promaxx is not a crappy company and is actually quite good for 1400.00 a set complete and out flow Edelbrock.  I’ve seen several set of the SBC version at 780.00 complete through my shop and they’re really nice, no tight valve guides out of the box , port throats match the seats . I think you referring the old Pro Comp stuff , Scott Foxwell has some Chevy BB and FE Promaxx that turn out nice . If someone is on a tight budget and don’t need 330 cfm they’re excellent choice

X4 on Blair posting

[amdscooter]

Promaxx is not a crappy company and is actually quite good for 1400.00 a set complete and out flow Edelbrock.  I’ve seen several set of the SBC version at 780.00 complete through my shop and they’re really nice, no tight valve guides out of the box , port throats match the seats . I think you referring the old Pro Comp stuff , Scott Foxwell has some Chevy BB and FE Promaxx that turn out nice . If someone is on a tight budget and don’t need 330 cfm they’re excellent choice

X4 on Blair posting

^^^ This.

The Promaxx heads are a good cost effective proposition.... quality does not seem to have the variance issues the Aluminum Eddy heads have been suffering of late. I just picked up a set for my SB Mopar 360, they are still sitting in the box waiting for my head guy to free up some time to go through them. But most people I hear have laid hands on them mirror what was said above... you can boltem' on with fair confidence.

[427HISS]

So I just read this thread.  I'm not going to try to sell my heads on here.  A person should do research and make an informed decision.  "Patrick CNC" can't accurately describe a pimple on an elephant's ass of all of the different programs we have.  I have revised the "Street Pro Port" seven times over the course of the time Edelbrock has been doing those castings.  When a person comes here for heads, the first things to figure out are budget, and how they intend to use it.   From there, I try to inform them to the best of my ability and do something to maximize their "bang for the buck".  There are five intake ports, two exhaust ports, and two combustion chambers that we generally sell in Ed Pro Port castings when selling cylinder heads or top end packages. I have a few other ports that we use in class legal or max effort race apps, that are cost prohibitive.......if not working within rules, it just isn't a sensible way to go.

"Street Pro Ports" have stock MR location intake and exhaust flanges.  I don't advertise numbers.  I sell heads that work.  Just for information purposes, I had Bischoff flow a Street Pro Port as a "3rd party".   320 at .500, 347 at .700.  Exhaust 240-ish in the stock location.  I don't need to go into any more detail here, but the ports are in the MR location, and they don't look like anything else mentioned here, and they do not cost $6K.  $4200 is current pricing for standard seats and 72cc chambers.  From there, there are MANY options. It is possible to get Econo Pro Ports for $3500, or max effort class-legal heads that are 15K. Raised and relocated exhaust ports flow 255 to 280 depending on port and valve size.  It all depends on goals and use. From 55cc chambers, to Oval Port and High Riser intake ports that will flow 400+ cfm, depending on where they are flowed.  I never see more than 390 here on any of my ports, but other folks have benches that read higher than mine.

We also work on many other brands of heads.  We just finished R&D on the next generation BBM heads. They are better than current offerings with only a 2.100 intake valve, and notably superior to any current stock location shelf available heads with the optional cnc package. They should be available in the Fall. 


Posted for information and clarification.  I'm not sure why every topic in which my stuff is mentioned always results in one or more experts on here, without fail, making false assumptions or misleading statements about my junk.  Sometimes there are trade-offs to accomplish goals.  Often, a max flow number is given up to get more meat where it needs it.  Sometimes ports are smaller, with high velocity by design, so quoting a flow number doesn't tell the whole story.  If you just buy a flow number, you may not get what you need.  Lots more to it. 
BP.
[/quot

Blair, I have a .030 block with a stock stroke and thinking of buying a 462 stroker. Can you give me the top three or so, of heads and which cfm to check out ? I know there's a lot different ways to go, but just your words of wisdom on what the engine needs. 😎

[CaptCobrajet]

Best thing to do if you are ready to buy something, and want to use us, is call the shop or email me. 423-837-one five one four.  Email is captcj at hughes dot net.  Thanks

[427HISS]

You should take a look at Jay's heads.

KS

I personally feel like Jay's heads would work fine on a street/strip deal as the cross section should be fine, just not sure they're needed if a guy is running a stock block as it would be in the "danger zone" for sure.  Plus I think the OP has a multi-stack EFI/carb type intake that wouldn't work with the heads.  Also not sure how well Jay's heads/intake will fit under a low hood line?

Correct, I have a stack EFI intake. Why wouldn't Jay's heads work ?

[427HISS]

On TFS FE head, says their not in stock ?

https://www.trickflow.com/search/product-line/trick-flow-powerport-175-cylinder-heads-for-ford-390-428

Much of what has been said, is over what my brain can understand.
So, with my TWM/BORLA stack injection, which heads and flow would be great for my 428FE ?

[chilly460]

You should take a look at Jay's heads.

KS

I personally feel like Jay's heads would work fine on a street/strip deal as the cross section should be fine, just not sure they're needed if a guy is running a stock block as it would be in the "danger zone" for sure.  Plus I think the OP has a multi-stack EFI/carb type intake that wouldn't work with the heads.  Also not sure how well Jay's heads/intake will fit under a low hood line?

Correct, I have a stack EFI intake. Why wouldn't Jay's heads work ?

Amongst other concerns, the intake spacing is different. http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=6987.0

[blykins]

I'm just not a ProMaxx fan. 

Never used their stuff, never plan to.   The way that head came about was that a fella named Stevens made a Chinese copy of  Edelbrock's head. 

I know there's a little bit of copying in everything, but I have zero tolerance in copying someone's product and having a cheap version made of it in China.  Procomp/Speedmaster did it with MSD, CHI, you name it.  This is just another instance of that, that's why they're so cheap. 

[e philpott]

Brent Promaxx bought Alabama cylinder heads and Patriot in 2012 , designed their own stuff after that and not to be confused with Pro Comp Stevenson copy

[blykins]

Brent Promaxx bought Alabama cylinder heads and Patriot in 2012 , designed their own stuff after that and not to be confused with Pro Comp Stevenson copy

If that's the case, then I will apologize and retract my statement.   Do you have a source for that info, Eric?

[Barry_R]

As far as I know its the Stevens casting with CNC and valve job done at ProMaxx

[e philpott]

Brent, just their about page , I’ve had several of the Chevy casting, Promaxx sold one of my customers some 183cc intake port heads for a 355 and told him when he goes to a 383 from 355 he can send the heads in and get a 200cc CNC port job for a small additional cost when he’s ready . They seem decent, in the FE world they are not something you pick for racing but a decent low cost alternative for a mild build that not worth fixing the cast iron heads
https://promaxxperformance.com/about-us/

[Keith Stevens]

I'm not sure why you're calling them "low cost". They were 98.00 less than Edelbrock heads when I was shopping. I also know at least two people who bought them had to have a valve job done on them because of seat run-out.  I'm not trying to be disagreeable, just stating observation.

I think when I do the other engine being I'm fighting the scuzzy radiator syndrome with the leaking oil gallery rocker feed lead I'll use Jay's heads providing they work with a factory intake and are available.

[thatdarncat]

I think when I do the other engine being I'm fighting the scuzzy radiator syndrome with the leaking oil gallery rocker feed lead I use Jay's heads providing they work with a factory intake and are available.

Jay’s FE Power heads will not work with a factory FE intake manifold, the intake ports are laid out in a different configuration, and are significantly raised. The FE Power heads will have to be used with the matching FE Power intake adapter and upper intake manifold. Jay will have multiple intake designs available though.

[Keith Stevens]

I would be okay with the tunnel-wedge design. I can't run them if it raises the height more than a dual quad medium riser or deviates much from the factory in looks. It would be nice to run something that breathes.